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Anonymous 17/09/15(Fri)01:10 No. 772528
772528

File 150543063534.jpg - (82.82KB , 337x429 , dadaint.jpg )

Below is a letter my Dad sent to me. I'm not sure how to respond. I'm not sure how it comes off to outsiders, but I'll preface it by saying my wife and I both have PhDs. We have been married for five years, my parents have come to visit at least 4 times a year, often for more than a week at a time, every year since then. I have a daughter from a previous relationship, so I split time with her mom.

During a visit in March, my own bi-polar mother lost her airwolfing shit and threatened me and my wife with a knife in the kitchen. Needless to say, that was a rough visit. Things are still a bit sore from that, but we thought we'd been working through it. We vacationed with them in August, and it was a pretty good time.

Then, last week, this letter shows up:


Dear Steven,

I have written and rewritten this letter several times since we got back from our trip (this is revision 6). The objective remains the same: I want to remind you of two things, share my deepest concerns and worries, and ultimately make a request from you and a proposal for peace and some harmony, if possible. I wanted to discuss it face to face while we saw each other in Yellowstone, but the opportunity was never evident. I wanted to get your response and reaction then, because I have written to you in the past and you ignored me. I am very sad and angry to write some of this; I feel that I am losing my son and there is nothing I can do to prevent it, except perhaps make my feelings known (to you!).


1. You are my son, my first-born son, and I love you and accept you as you are. I always have, ever since I saw you being pulled out of your mother by the doctor. I went to watch you later, bundled up in a tiny crib at the hospital where you were born, and I remember holding you for the first time. You changed my life in so many ways that I do not even remember what it felt like before I was a Dad. I had many ideas about that, but there is no comparison to the real thing, as I am sure you know. My mother (your grandmother) was crazy about you (her first grandchild and the only one she knew), even before you were born. She had a bassinet made specially for you; and when we
arrived from the hospital, she asked where the baby was going to
sleep; she wanted you in a room in her house, next to hers.


2. I am very proud of you, and I have to add that this makes your
distance from me all the more hurtful. Let me list a few examples of that pride:

- When you were three or four months old, I used to carry you
around the house on the palm of my hand, in a way that you (on your stomach) could see where we were going and even reach things. Once, we were at the kitchen sink and the water was running; you wanted to reach the lever to shut it down. It was too far and you could not reach. I watched you look around and pick a long wooden spoon; you grabbed the spoon, and with it, knocked the lever down to shut the faucet. That day, I knew you were very smart. You sized the problem and solved it, and to this day, I brag about that.

- You were then, and have always been, an excellent reader. Your vocabulary is rich and precise; you always know the right words to use. That started early, as we read to you and you memorized the words of the stories. I brag about that.

- When we went cross country skiing to [redacted], it was the first time for all of us, except your mother. We put on our skis and she instructed us and we were to follow the group to our cabin. She went ahead carrying out stuff and we discovered that you
were a natural cross-country skier. You did not ski like everyone else, you were like skating; and you went to the cabin (almost a mile away) and back at least 3 times. I brag about that.

- One or two seasons of our indoor soccer league, you were my goalie: a position of great responsibility; I know this, because I was a goalie too. You were a great goalie and I brag about that.

- I never told you what to study or what to choose as a career. (I did express my disapproval of drugs, alcohol, and criminal associations and I showed you by example too.) I knew you were good with logic and computers, but you chose to study Psychology. I never questioned your choice; though it hurt me that you were so eager to leave home. (You were on a plane to [redacted] the Sunday after your high school graduation.) But you did very well in your chosen field and managed to graduate in three years! I brag about that.

- On your own, you realized that you wanted something different and chose to start over in Math and Economics. After taking classes at [redacted], you got yourself in [redacted], and you started over, all on your own. It took courage and determination and planning, and I brag about that too. I regret not being able to help you more, as it was your brother’s turn to be in college. I was very happy and proud when you called me to tell me your 4.0 semester, and when
you wanted to share your interests and different options. I
bragged about that too.

- You not only finished, but managed to pursue and complete
further achievements. I am very proud of that and I used to brag
to my students about my son: my math consultant.

- You became a professor in an excellent school. One of the [redacted]
research managers that I wanted to work with is a graduate from [redacted]. Learning about that made me very proud, even if I didn’t get the job.

- You became a Dad and made us grandparents and my life changed again, for the better. Not only we became crazy over Kelsey, but I am so proud to see what a great Dad you became. I do brag about that, and I add, without envy, that you are a better Dad than I was. Without envy because my own Dad taught me that the next generation is expected to be better.
So, yes, I am very proud of you and your accomplishments (and this was not a complete list – I am just making my point).


As your Dad, I am afraid I didn’t do a good job teaching you a few very important things. So, without diminishing my pride of you, there are things that I do not brag about and I want you to know them too:

• I do not brag about the way you treat your mother. I’d wish you had had the chance to see how I treated my mother, and learned from it.
She was very sensitive and emotional and would burst into a big dramatic display any time and many times. Yet, I never wished for a different mother, and I miss her every day still. When she died, the thing that angered me the most was that I could no longer call her and communicate with her as I used to. I never, in a million years, would have conceived it possible that my mother would have to meet any real or imaginary condition to be welcome in my home. The truth is that it is not even possible for me to think that she was not a part of my home. The fact that you thought it and it made sense to you has broken both our hearts. I never taught you such a thing and I do not know where you may have learned it. You are an adult now and I cannot change pretend to change your ideas of your World. I can tell you that for me, that idea is very wrong.

Let me reiterate and make something very clear to you:
Your mother is not crazy and she does not need medication. She is very sensitive and very emotional (like my own mother was) and there are limits to her patience (in this case, she is far more patient than I am). She has food allergies that we know affect her mood and tolerances, and they are very real. You have known these since we lived here the first time and her doctor identified them. We told your wife about them on the first time we visited and even after that; yet, I personally saw her preparing meals with the very foods that your mother should not eat; your mother’s good manners made her consume them. Perhaps Molly did not believe us, or, as in so many other topics, she feels that she knows better. To to me, that was a blatant disregard for your mother’s health and an unwelcoming statement (and that wasn’t the only one).

I do not hate your wife. I really do not know her at all. It takes a lot more than a “confessional” story for me (or anybody), or a Facebook profile, to actually know someone. I never believed anybody’s self-descriptions. I know people by interacting with them and learning from their behavior. All my observations suggest that Molly is immature and, at best, insincere; she is kind of just “playing house;” and Kelsey is part of her “make-believe game:” as if Kelsey were a doll, she pretends that she is her mother. She pretends that her Mother is Kelsey’s Grandmother, and in end, then they are her “family.” Her persistent correction, reprimands and “why” screeches are annoying and out-of-place and only contribute to her illusion of control. She always seems to have something to say about Kelsey’s activities, as if she were in charge.

In my culture, in the home where I was raised, my parents were strict and they punished, spanked, and yelled at me plenty (not always deserving it); yet, no one (not ever real family outside my parents) was ever allowed to even raise their voice at me. That is my culture and my truth. A step mother is a title, it carries no real responsibilities and no rights; especially, not the right to delude the little girl about who her real family is! Sure, we share some background as they are from the same country as me; but do
not confuse that with culture or values or family. The idea is ludicrous, and it seems to me they are feeding it to you as some kind of real alternative. Don’t get me wrong, I am all for having the whole world love, support, and look after Kelsey’s best interest; yet, the whole world must occupy its place and let the real family be a real family. I find it very disturbing to see a photo of Kelsey as the title page of Molly's mothers Facebook account. It reminds me of at least two “Law & Order, SVU” episodes about child kidnappers. It worries me that it does not raise red flags, sirens, and flares to you. By the way, by sponsoring those artificial bonds, you may find yourself one day in a 3-way custody battle; or worse yet, if something were to happen to you, it will be us fighting it (there are precedents to this). There should be no question in Kelsey’s mind (and yours!) about who is her family and who isn’t. I never invented you any fake relatives; what’s up with that now?

Molly is your wife and she has the right to set rules in her home, only you can argue that. But it makes me uncomfortable and very angry that she arranges for her family to have a disproportionate access to my granddaughter, while we seldom get to see her or spend real time with her. I respect your choices for companionship; but I expect reasonable loyalty and respect in setting the boundaries. We want to develop a healthy, strong, and consistent relationship with Kelsey, and you should want that too. To that end, we need access and time, without supervision (other than you if you want; we really miss you too). Please, realize that we had no
part creating this “limited-time” situation that you are in, and we need you to do the right thing and facilitate our time with Kelsey.

I know we are not welcome in your house; we do not want to cause you trouble, so, I am not asking for that. The fact is that you never actually took back your words; you merely said to me on the phone: “Molly thinks that I might have been too harsh.” I have an excellent memory (I was tested recently) and I remember precisely what you said; even in Grand Teton, you just said that the statement had been “draconic;” so? What does that mean?

I want you to actively participate and help arrange for a better time share, that we, as her real family, deserve. Whenever there is one of those “fun trips” planned and “paid for”, we want Kelsey with us. You probably have all of next year planned up already, and knowing in advance we can arrange to go get her and bring her back. We may not be a Disney ride, but we can make her feel safe and loved and at home, and we can make her time worthwhile. No stranger should be able to compete with real grandparents (2 real grandmothers), aunts and uncles, and her cousin, and win. That does not happen in my culture and I’d wish I had taught you that value well. I thought I had. You and your brothers were the center of our lives; we used to hang out in the same room of the house all the time. I knew you had to fly out of the nest someday, but that does not mean I was not sad, and I never imagined that we would at risk to become your ex-family, because you needed one to replace us with. My respect for your freedom of choice was not a to be interpreted as if I do not care; I do!

That is how I feel. I can accept your wife, in her place. On a good day, I can imagine for a few minutes, that she is doing the best she can; if that is the case, then she is trying too hard and going about it the wrong way. She is not a parent, and as I pointed out early in this letter, you can’t know about parenting without having been one.

I hate to think that I spent 2 weeks writing this and it will mean nothing to you. If that is the case, I am prepared to know it, and I expect that you will tell me that I am now your ex-dad. I expect you to tell me once and for all, where we stand. And please, don’t you think for even one fraction of a second, that I bought any of the improbable coincidences that paved the path to your new status. You lied to me and I chose to leave all that out of this letter. I did the best I could for you (if you feel differently, I like you to enlighten me); I think I deserved better than a lie and cover-up story, years in the making. As a matter of principle, I take no other side but yours; but you kept me in the dark about what side that was.

Deceit was not in my list of values to teach you. And I refuse to believe that the elaborate scheme was all yours; I just don’t think you can be that mean and disloyal. Whatever makes you feel so sure that you are not the target of a greater deceit from the schemer? I feel the damage it is causing your mother and me and Kelsey; what makes you feel so safe? Understand me for being angry at what I perceive are thieves trying to steal my family.

Love,

Your Dad.

PS: Do not take this the wrong way and consider my vintage point. In our last get together in the Parks, I heard two things: (1) You do not have a secure position (a job), and (2) You changed your mind about not having a baby, and plan to have one soon. Apart from the incompatibility of those two messages, I want you to know how it made me feel. And it is my personal feeling; I cannot help it; I need you to be aware, whatever you choose to do: when you showed me the ultrasound image of Kelsey, I fell in love immediately; given our current unresolved circumstances, I do not feel that way at all about the idea, and in fact, I do not really like how I feel ... just so you know.


>>
Lorf 17/09/15(Fri)01:12 No. 772529

By the way, my Dad rejects multiple medical professional diagnoses of bi-polar, and that claims my Mom has an ``emotional reation'' if she eats dairy and corn. This has not been suggested or confirmed by any experts.


>>
PrettyPony 17/09/15(Fri)01:57 No. 772530

Geez, quite the read.

I'd respond by informing him of the invention of the telephone.


>>
Conductor Cat 17/09/15(Fri)06:33 No. 772534

I just skimmed over that wall of text and your dad sounds like a dick.


>>
Optimus Prime 17/09/15(Fri)08:15 No. 772537
772537

File 150545614619.gif - (1.67MB , 480x360 , First.gif )

Your Dad sounds like an enabler of your Mom's illness.

If she ever pulls a weapon on you again I wouldn't just kick her out of the house, I would call the police. They can explain to your father that this is not simply an emotional reaction but a threat of imminent bodily harm with very real consequences.

It would certainly create a massive schism but it may shock your Dad back into reality long enough to realize what's going on and get your Mom the help she so desperately needs. Because that's the real victim of this tale, your Mom. She's ill and needs help. Untreated she's not going to get better. She's just going to get worse.

Whatever you do, I would never leave your daughter alone with them. Your Mom could decide that your daughter has a demon inside her that must be cut out, and your Dad wouldn't stop her because she's just having a bad reaction to beets or soy or whatever other normal thing she's eaten a billion times before without incident.


>>
Brony 17/09/15(Fri)09:37 No. 772551
772551

File 150546105119.jpg - (107.83KB , 500x499 , 1494356938467.jpg )

Dear Dad,

I have thought a lot about what your wrote me. Thank you for taking the time to let me know how you truly feel. I am thankful you can love mom so much and still love me while I am forced to put up barriers.

Dad, mom is like a jack-in-the-box loaded with explosives. She isn't always a threat but that she can unpredictably be a knife wielding deadly threat is not something I can ignore when it comes to my child. Your grandchild. If you love Kelsey as much as you say you do then you can't ignore how bad off mom gets. If you knew of anyone else that pulled a knife on us would you think it reasonable that I allow them around Kelsey afterwards?

I can't imagine what it is like for you. You so clearly adore mom and love Kelsey and those things are competing against each other.

But dad, you're going to have to recognize mom has a problem bigger than you can help her with. It doesn't mean you love her any less. I am afraid you think so poorly of people that accept that are ill like mom is that you can't stand the idea of her being in that category. You won't even consider the idea. I know it hurts dad but you're hurting mom more by insisting the world is one way when you have been given a diagnoses for mom and path for her to not suffer anymore. Please, if not for Kelsey then for mom.

When it comes to being a mom I am thankful I have the one I do. But let me be clear, it because of who she is and has been for me; not because I came from her body. Giving me birth is so far down the list of the gifts she's given me that I know it is miniscule in what it takes to be a real parent.

If you think by not being Kelsey's biological mother that my wife is not a mom then I am sorry for your ignorance. Maybe it comes from the blessing of staying married all while raising us. If you can't recognize that being a mom or dad isn't simply about giving birth but showing up everyday year after year then you can't possibly respect what it takes for my wife to show up everyday, year after year, when as you pointed out, she doesn't have the responsibility yoked on her. That kind of dedication to a child shows more grit than someone who has to stay because they are a mother by birth. That grit is what [wife's name] has shown. Her determination to care for Kelsey mom has damn well earned the rights that come with being a "real" one.

Understand this, [Wife's name] and Kelsey are MY family living in OUR culture in a house that [wife's name] and I are in charge of together. I say this with some force because I believe you when you say I am a better dad than you. I believe you were a better dad than your dad. It is my job to be a better dad, to give her more opportunity and a better life than I had. You helped give me the ability to do that. Don't try and take that away by your contradiction that I am not running my home well.

Dad, this home and this life we are building you and mom are welcome to. That invitation may be temporarily rescinded when mom is not well. Otherwise we want you to have as much time with Kelsey as is available with her third set of grandparents but you are going to have to make an effort to make that time occur.

Yes we have time planned out well in advance but it isn't stopping you from going to games, eating dinner with us on Sundays, picking her up from school, taking her to the dentist... Everyday is a chance for you. You just have to make it happen. If it seems like a competition then maybe it is and you are not doing what it takes. If you want more time then perhaps you should move closer to us. It's not for me to make you a better grandparent. You and mom don't get a free pass just because you begat me. We want you to have a deep relationship with Kelsey but we're not breaking our backs to make it happen for you. Respectfully we have more important things to make sure we provide her.

Dad I am sorry that I have been deceitful with you. You deserve better than that. It was disrespectful and I truly regret it. You are a strong man and should have been more honest and forthright with you over trying to save your feelings.

So I am going to say this to you like a man, the man and father you raised me to be:
This is my house and at the end of the day my word here is final. I will seek your console and hope you wont refrain from being honest with my like you were in your letter. However, once I have spoken I expect that you will respect my decisions and if need be approach me after an appropriate amount of time to discuss your concerns.

I love you dad. You and mom both. I love Kelsey and my wife more. Right now that seems to mean I can't love you and mom the way you want. But it is the way I will.


Your loving and grateful son,


Mr. I_aint_daddy's_beta


>>
Bob Ross 17/09/15(Fri)16:09 No. 772555

Apologize to your mother, Steven. Stop being an asshole.


>>
Bill 17/09/15(Fri)16:28 No. 772557

>>772551
"are MY family living in OUR culture"

Is your mother and father muslim?


>>
OP 17/09/15(Fri)19:38 No. 772558

>>772530
Yeah, I agree. I have a hard time understanding why the volume of rage seems to be turned up to 11. He was always a pretty distant father, and I never once talked to him about my relationships with women. His sense of loss doesn't match with reality.

>>772534
He is, but usually not this bad. The worst fight we ever had before this was when I moved out of his house (11 years ago) and invited my younger brother to move out with me. He raised his fists at me, and I dared him to punch me. He did, right in the face, but it was a weak ass blow so I just stared him down and we never talked about it again.

>>772537
>>772555
My childhood was rough with my Mom, but things have been getting better. I started to better understand her illness, and react more appropriately. It is hard to undo two decades of damage. I worry about her not being on medication, and I worry that my Dad's denial is preventing her from getting real help.

>>772551
This is essentially what I responded, execept for this:
>Dad I am sorry that I have been deceitful with you. You deserve better than that. It was disrespectful and I truly regret it. You are a strong man and should have been more honest and forthright with you over trying to save your feelings.

I've never lied to him about anything (at least not as an adult). This seems to be the fuel for the fire too, his perception that there is some conspiracy to deceive him. He has not been direct about what he thinks I have lied about, but I will contrast what I've told him (the truth) and what he seems to believe (the conspiracy):

The truth:

My wife, Molly, and I met in 2008, while I was still with my ex. We met during a six week trip I went on at the end of college. My ex and I had already been on the rocks, and I airwolfed around with Molly on this trip. When I returned home, my ex informed me that she was six weeks pregnant with Kelsey, my daughter.

So, I did what I had to do. I tried my best to stick with my ex for the sake of our kid. We did our best. I told Molly that we couldn't be together. She accepted that, and we both did our own thing. I did stay in touch with Molly, but we maintained a platonic relationship until I split with my ex. We always loved each other, but never once said it. It was obvious.

The final split was fueled by essentially the same things as the first one. There was no trust or intimacy in that relationship. We fought constantly. Ending that was the hardest choice I have ever made, though I am not sure that it was the right decision.

Molly, coincidentally, had been applying to grad schools months prior to this, and shortly after was accepted to a handful of schools. One of those, was where I was. I told her I loved her, I asked her to be with me. She did. Our relationship has been all but a fairy tale ever since.

She is an amazing stepmom. She and my ex are good friends. She gets along with my brothers, my mother, and my ex's parents. Until this outburst, my Dad had been distant and has not really spent any time with her.

Her family treats me and my daugher like family. We love them, too.

The conspiracy:

Molly and I met in 2008, and had a torrid affair that I hid from my family. After five or so years of philandering, Molly pressured me into leaving my family, and I did so at her behest. Since she stole me from my ex, she also is intent on stealing me from my parents. She does this through passive aggressive rejection and making them feel unwelcome in our home. Part of her motivation is to have Kelsey as her own daughter, who she wishes to separate from all of them as well. Her family is in on this plot. I am an idiot not to see it.


>>
zeneslev 17/09/15(Fri)19:45 No. 772559

>>772557

Nope, they aren't muslim. They aren't even religious. My mom was born and raised in New England, I'd guess she identifies as non-practicing Catholic. My Dad is an an atheist.

He goes on and on about teaching me family values but: I met my grandfather on his side twice. He disowned his brother for being a Christian. He doesn't regard my mother's family as part of his own. We visited them about once a year, sometimes twice, but my brothers and I were never close with them.

Our home was not too far off from the one depicted in "The Wolf Pack." Our dad was a controlling maniac who's idea of protecting us was isolating us. Now that we're all grown up, he struggles with his lack of influence and control.


>>
Spider Expert 17/09/15(Fri)20:37 No. 772561

>>772559
>he struggles with his lack of influence and control
If you'll forgive me a little paranoia, this statement really worries me:
>or worse yet, if something were to happen to you, it will be us fighting it (there are precedents to this)
Your parents are already considering taking legal action to take custody of your child.

Of course that's stipulated on you being dead or incapacitated, but it's pretty clear there are no stipulations for your wife. I have heard of cases where relatives succeeded in stripping another relative of their children over "concerns for their well-being" etc. with no basis in reality. All it takes is a little timing and a sympathetic judge. They may even make a move while you are alive and well, if they perceive that your home situation is unstable enough to make a case.

Honestly, as >>772537 has said and you seem to be aware, your father is making things worse not only for your relationship with him, but for your mother's mental health. I think he needs therapy as much as she does. You might even consider taking steps to have the both of them put into mandatory therapy by some means. Not necessarily locked up in an institution, but the knife attack is certainly grounds to ask a judge to mandate family counselling. Of course, you might also be required to attend.

On the other hand, your father has an almost Confucian perspective on how children should respect their parents and in China he would be right and you would be wrong because it was decided over 2000 years ago.


>>
Bill 17/09/15(Fri)23:25 No. 772565

>>772529
your dad thinks you are gay


>>
Novice Equestrian 17/09/16(Sat)00:19 No. 772567

>>772558
>I have a hard time understanding why the volume of rage seems to be turned up to 11.
Because your mom performed an act in your presence that he can't defend. He knows this in his heart but refuses to admit it, so he's blaming you for it.

It's easier to blame you than admit that your mom needs help and, probably most important of all, that he was wrong.

People will go to great lengths to stay living in denial. They get stuck in a comfortable rut and any attempt to dislodge them is met with anger. The older people get the angrier they get.


>>
Nyan Cat 17/09/16(Sat)21:12 No. 772595

Reads like your Dad is really lonely and misses you being there for him.

Maybe y'all should take the trip next year to go visit your parents instead of them coming to see you. I imagine he'd be less guarded and open up more in an environment he can control.


>>
4chan user 17/09/17(Sun)01:06 No. 772598

>>772561
I'm not too worried about him being able to sue me for custody, though it isn't lost on me that he might consider it.

>>772565
He definitely thought my brother was gay. He used to lock him in his room for weeks on end to try and keep him away from his "faggot" friends. No base in reality there, either.

>>772567
Yup.

>>772595
This was a lot more of an option a couple weeks ago. In fact, we were thinking about asking them if we could all go there for Christmas this year. Now, it doesn't feel like we're welcome there, either. It's a sick sort of stalemate.

He hasn't spoken to me since I responded to his letter. I kind of hope he doesn't, at least not for a while. I really doubt he can swallow his pride and apologize, or even act civilly to me and my wife.


>>
poe 17/09/18(Mon)06:23 No. 772642

>>772557
Just using the language from dad's letter


>>
Miku Fanboy 17/09/19(Tue)00:44 No. 772654

>>772528

What I got:
-he buttered you up for some unpleasant news
-he says he doesn't hate your wife but, gosh darn it, it really seems like he hates your wife
this passage was odd: "I know people by interacting with them and learning from their behavior. All my observations suggest that Molly is immature and, at best, insincere; she is kind of just “playing house;” and Kelsey is part of her “make-believe game:” as if Kelsey were a doll, she pretends that she is her mother. She pretends that her Mother is Kelsey’s Grandmother, and in end, then they are her “family.” Her persistent correction, reprimands and “why” screeches are annoying and out-of-place and only contribute to her illusion of control. She always seems to have something to say about Kelsey’s activities, as if she were in charge." it was contradictory and shows that your has trust issues, since he doesn't trust people's self descriptions. he is observant but his observations show a lot of confirmation bias and he seems to have "blinders" on when it comes to your mother's conduct since he doesn't make any attempt to rationalize her behavior, really. "you can’t know about parenting without having been one" is also a striking passage because he assumes that you can only learn about things from experience, which eliminates books, and your wife is a kind of parent anyways.

it sounds like he is deeply offended you have a different family unit than what he grew up with and what he provided you, and took the divorce as an attack on one of his core values. I'd explain in more detail the reasoning for your divorce and how families change over time. "Deceit was not in my list of values to teach you. And I refuse to believe that the elaborate scheme was all yours; I just don’t think you can be that mean and disloyal. Whatever makes you feel so sure that you are not the target of a greater deceit from the schemer? I feel the damage it is causing your mother and me and Kelsey; what makes you feel so safe? Understand me for being angry at what I perceive are thieves trying to steal my family" reinforces that he feels deceived and that you should've kept your ex-wife as a mother and now he's ultimately worried that you'll end family ties with him, probably because he doesn't perceive the amount of affection that you give him, or you might be accidentally neglecting him.

the obvious point is that your father felt like he couldn't communicate with you in person about these issues and used an email for a sensitive conversation that really should happen in real life. how effective are you two really communicating? it sounds like there is a lot of fear on both sides. sure, you perceived that the trip went well. but how sensitive are you to your father who had all of these emotions and thoughts brewing deeply inside, so deeply that he had to ruminate on communicating with his son for TWO WEEKS?

you two should really speak face to face in private on a trip with just the two of you so that there's no outside pressure to keep a vacation fun (that might have caused your dad to put on an act, nullifying my last paragraph). just my 0.02. excuse any minor mechanical errors (those are not good enough to discredit an argument anyways) I don't have time to craft a precisely worded analysis for your petty personal shit, but I do have time to help out


>>
r000t 17/09/19(Tue)11:21 No. 772665

>>772558
>My childhood was rough with my Mom, but things have been getting better. I started to better understand her illness, and react more appropriately. It is hard to undo two decades of damage. I worry about her not being on medication, and I worry that my Dad's denial is preventing her from getting real help.
I'm getting that you didn't apologize. You should.

>>772598
>He hasn't spoken to me since I responded to this letter.
What was the response?


>>
Miku Fanboy 17/09/20(Wed)01:57 No. 772678

>>772665
I'd like to see OP's response, too!


>>
Novice Equestrian 17/09/20(Wed)04:20 No. 772680

>>772665
>>772678
See >>772558
>This is essentially what I responded


>>
Bob Ross 17/09/20(Wed)04:38 No. 772681

>>772680
You insincerely apologized for being deceitful?


>>
Weeabot 17/09/20(Wed)06:18 No. 772682
772682

File 150588109618.jpg - (64.13KB , 750x981 , Dont Make Her Kick Your Ass.jpg )

>>772681
>You
Not the guy, just pointing out that the question has already been answered, and far more thoroughly than your constant short, poorly sourced insinuations that he lied to his dad.

Something he also points out he didn't do, which you could read for yourself if you'd only take the time to do.


>>
Novice Equestrian 17/09/26(Tue)04:56 No. 772821
772821

File 15063945588.gif - (4.60MB , 450x598 , DidntRead.gif )

>>772528
>>772551
>>772558
>>772654


>>
4chan user 17/09/26(Tue)13:40 No. 772843


>>772681
i'm not saying be a great stand up person... I am saying protect your family and if that means twisting Dad's ideas against him just so you can pick him up long enough to say something else shitty to him to make him back off then do it...

lie to the sorry mother airwolfer. there you go, I said it...

you owe the asshole nothing OP. You owe your family everything. And if this self center butt hurt toddler of a father you have isn't on the net sided of providing for your family then kick him in the god damned guts and swim for safety because it's better one asshole dies than two people and your family drown in his self pity

tldr; I didn't say be sincere, gut the mother airwolfer, courage wolf up and alpha for you family OP


>>
OP 17/10/01(Sun)00:50 No. 773006

>>772821
mu-shu 7tan


>>
Marisa Kirisame 17/10/01(Sun)09:00 No. 773025

>>772534
His dad says unds like a much nicer version of mine. Which makes me sick t think what I've been through.

Hope you're okay, OP.


>>
Spiderman 17/10/01(Sun)09:00 No. 773026

>>773025
Sounds

airwolf


>>
He-Man 17/10/01(Sun)11:22 No. 773029

Your father has control issues and is obviously passive agressive. He's not in denial of your mom's illness, he is controlling the illness, by saying it doesn't exist and IF your wife added the wrong ingredients, then it's quite a simple act to have mentioned it at the time. Instead he waits 2 weeks so he can twist the knife in from afar and cause tension in your relationship with your wife. The whole letter is divisive against your relationship with your wife, and he is obviously blaming her for him not having your daughter stay over with him. He believes that your wife is undualy influencing you, whispering in your ear, telling you that the grandparants can't be trusted. The only reason someone is that paranoid that you would instantly take your wife's side, is because he does that to your mother. In terms of the physical assault, he lost his cool. instead of helping you move out, or guiding you not to move out just because of an argument he hit you, because you were in control of the situation.
Personally as your daughter grows up, I would say that she does need to be around him, ONLY so that you can teach her what passive agressive people are like, so that she realises that it is not a good relationship to have with her spouse. He insinuates that he understands your mom better than you do. That is complete fiction. Children learn their parents much much quicker and better than spouses learn each other. You will always have a far better understanding of your mother than he does. Most parents expect children to understand them, because a child is their's and "should give them respect". Most spouses relationships are built on "on my best behaviour", because that's what we do when we are trying to get a "mate".


>>
p4ch3c0 17/10/02(Mon)02:14 No. 773044


" I can accept your wife, in her place."

Saturn Devouring His Son (detail), possibly the most famous of the Black Paintings

Cronus, paranoid and fearing the end of his rule, now turned into the terrible king his father Uranus had been, swallowing each of his children whole as they were born from his sister-wife Rhea. Rhea, however, managed to hide her youngest child Zeus, by tricking Cronus into swallowing a rock wrapped in a blanket instead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanomachy

nevermind your parents, I've got like 6-7 different ways of saying the exact same thing here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnar%C3%B6k#Gylfaginning_chapters_52_and_53

take charge, I haven't read a lot just skimmed through, but ultimately you need to make sure you're financially secure etc, and when you're rooted, grounded and anchored, you turn around and tell those airwolfers that it's not about what they can accept, it's about what you WILL accept, or won't, and you won't accept that kind of selfish treatment towards the woman you love and your children
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXi9bwI6cY8


>>
Nyan Cat 17/10/02(Mon)02:16 No. 773047

Youtube  oh, the embed didn't work, well here you go

it may seem silly but culture exists for a reason you know


>>
Cryomancer 17/10/02(Mon)02:29 No. 773048

Youtube  what I'm saying is in fact, sorry for the extra post
put your parents in their f~u~c~k~i~n~g p~l~a~c~e like a real man - they're old weak and infirm and worried, lashing out, someone has to show strength

again, wider culture is absolute on this point, that the failings of the father do not have to be the failings of the son, I'm also aware of how much of an issue it can be to approach a position of masculine dominance that one has a natural gift for because of the fear of abusing it - which is why you set boundaries and enforce them, you don't try to intrude on his thoughts anymore, you let him adapt to you not the other way around - I'm fairly certain you'll feel better after you do, be aware they may thrash over it a while before they accept it so don't rush to judgements, let them tantrum on their own after

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB-pG7wEnzM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFJ73LLVSS4

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheThreeFacesOfAdam

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheThreeFacesOfEve

flip the god damn script on him. if they can't accept it that they're past their prime and you're comign into yours, then they're poison to your family probably



During the War of the Last Alliance, Isildur cut the One Ring from Sauron's hand, but he refused to destroy it. Isildur was later killed by Orcs and the Ring was lost in the Disaster of the Gladden Fields for nearly 2,500 years. His refusal to destroy the Ring allowed Sauron's spirit to endure and ensured that he would remain a threat to Middle-earth for years to come. Isildur's bloodline survived in the Dúnedain of the North and his heirs would help end Sauron's power in the War of the Ring.

He also appeared to possess a nigh-indomidable will. At one point, he was able to psychically challenge Sauron for control of the Palantir of Orthanc, and proved victorious in that struggle. It should be noted that even Gandalf the White was reluctant to use the Palantir for fear of challenging Sauron directly and revealing himself to the Dark Lord. He was accounted as "the hardiest of living Men" during his lifetime.


>>
symbion 17/10/02(Mon)02:48 No. 773051

Youtube  one more for good measure
and a bit about my own situation to help you decide on yours

I've really shirked my own quite natural masculine dominance actually for fear of becoming like my own parents, but over the years they got better, I was still rather static and falling apart until a woman came into my life and suddenly I find everything's aligning and turning around and I'm growing up

which isn't to say I don't love the immature stuff still, but rather to say that I'm more mature
I'll always have that cultural analysis element to me
I'm supporting her right now because she spent the spending money for her trip to see me, and now she needs help

my grandpa told me he couldn't help me, my father suggested there's a time to know when to cut off when I asked for a loan because I stupidly spent the money I should've probably saved in case of emergency - I've coasted so long I don't make a lot of money and am working on that now actually... but anyways the point is I run from paycheque to paycheque and irresponsibly spent money which is why I had to ask for a loan, I figured she wasn't going to ask for anything, as we were still kind of broken up but at the same time for some reason I know her enough to not HAVE to worry, but I've got my own insecurities and they were causing me to worry and imagine things

it turns out that there are great rewards for maintaining a strong self and position

and I know full well the usual red flag alarm bells for most people go off in this situation, but there's enough to the situation I won't tell about that makes me secure in the faith that she's still mine no matter what is said, especially now that I'm getting over my first breakup, centering, and going from manchild to man

my father will be giving the money I asked for, and I will pay him back, it's thanks to this woman that I've repaired bridges with my parents, out of sheer will and necessity to have a family system available for her, I am building my own life up to shelter her in it, this is I think quite healthy given where I started as a foreveralone wizard

anyways, the grandparent's decision not to help versus the father's decision to warn about the potential dangers but help all the same, my grandpa is adoptive, he's had issues with my mother
I can see why she had those issues, even as I'm thankful to him for what he's done for me in life

but my father, having dealt with his own issues, is in fact as of now the proper model, given that I'm still maturing the parent/child thing is still in effect a bit, but will change in time, it's sort of a meta situation between him and I and that's fine because I'm rapidly moving into full maturity

for you, you've already done so mostly, it's about putting him in his place in your life, for me, well, he and I kind of were intractable until I lived on my own for some time so I already handled the conflict dominance hierarchy stuff but not the personal responsibility stuff, for you it's the other way around

protect what's yours, and as long as you understand that even the people that are yours are their own first and foremost, if you can understand THAT distinction and hierarchy of legitimacy, then you'll do fine


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h 17/10/12(Thu)00:59 No. 773263
773263

File 150776278858.jpg - (410.52KB , 1197x1593 , chase.jpg )

>>773051
>>773048
That's what I'm talking about here >>772551
Except in a passive aggressive approach... Be more manly than me. It's what your family and father need.



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