Wow, I had no idea that if a movement hadn't made major inroads into established political processes within 12 months that it meant the movement had failed.

Maybe you should stop expecting instantaneous results and start realizing that movements are slow and steady.

The only reason the Tea Party went from nowhere to everywhere so quickly is because it was an astroturf.

>>12734
I don't expect the world. Just point to a few state or local races where an "occupy" candidate has a real shot, and I'll be mollified. That shouldn't be to hard.

do they even have candidates?

>>12740
They could get behind candidates at least. If they talking bout building a movement, that's it. Just sitting around in parks, getting arrested and bitching on the internet don't do shit. Point me to community organiser organisations (think Acorn) at least, that's the lowest of the lowest tier of political movement building.

acorn is pretty lowly on the ethical scale, anyway

>>12750
They got done in over bullshit, and the democrats were too pussy to have their back.

File 134159091275.jpg - (22.34KB , 500x300 , obama_college.jpg )

uhh... yeah... i'll buy that easy excuse for a dollar

>>12750
Only if you trust video edited by a future felon.

File 134160148729.jpg - (36.23KB , 333x500 , pod ppl.jpg )

yeah... we wuz framed - LOL
them cameras wuz lyin'
evry time we got kot
we wuz jus walkin' down da street - honest injun'
give it a break, pop star

>>12756
Someone using "LOL" in an argument should be suspended from a bridge with a meathook through his scrotum.

there was a time when I despaired at the lack of interest in politics, as the predicted time of it's re-emergence out of a vital necessity as the governments of north america fell into demagoguery

and it wasn't happening

it sure as hell is now, and even the most politically obtuse people are finding personal reasons, I'm able to say "I told you so" at this point in time, without it being a total "after the fact" jab at those people, they know that future political events will be important

and that's in canada, the USA needed it even more


I must admit I was positively overjoyed when I heard about 9/11, in my defense the notion that there were people in the building hadn't come across, the level of destruction was totally unknown to me, and my initial thought was that the USA would wake up, look around and realize that the government does many bad things around the world

a bit later I chided myself for this naive belief, it would come to pass eventually, but first they'd have to do a stupid over reaction and get a bloody nose, not through absolute blood but by sheer lack of success in their endeavors to subjugate afghanistan, graveyard of empires

>>12756
Have you seen the original unedited video?

That scumbag makes Michael Moore look like a documentary filmmaker. And, no, you partisan hack, I don't like Moore's shit any more than you do. The last movie he made that didn't disgust me was Roger & Me.

get caught with your hand in the cookie jar - blame the person who caught you...
get caught with your hand in the cookie jar - blame the person who caught you... and they're biased
get caught with your hand in the cookie jar - blame the person who caught you... and they're obviously biased, and they're racists
get caught with your hand in the cookie jar - blame the person who caught you... and they're obviously biased, and they're blatantly racists, and it's a conspiracy against you

because acorn was PURE like the Red Cross
because acorn was PURE like the Boy Scouts
because acorn was PURE like the March of Dimes

well... except for their record of other scandals and double dealing behavior

>>12784
>scandals
You mean those fantasies created out of thin air by conservative politicians trying to distract their base from the corrupt practices they were being found guilty of committing?

Or have you forgotten all about Abramoff?

or Solyndra?

>>12789
You mean yet another story created out of nothing by wingnut Republicans grasping at straws?

Meanwhile your politicians are still as corrupt as ever. Though I suppose you think Romney hiding hundreds of millions of dollars in offshore accounts is somehow not evidence of corruption. Or Romney having over a hundred million dollars in his IRA, which would require a rate of return of over 200000%, isn't corruption either. Or Bush funneling millions of tax dollars to evangelical groups for "faith based services" isn't corruption. Or abstinence-only education, which funneled tax dollars to conservative groups creating "teaching" material that does nothing except increase teen pregnancy rates (and accidental poisoning) isn't corruption.

The party of Nixon certainly isn't just conducting business as usual.

>>12798
http://thisainthell.us/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/dumbass_poster.jpg

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

File 134194166694.jpg - (119.77KB , 286x400 , shut-up-hippie-nixon.jpg )

http://tommclaughlin.blogspot.com/2012/04/how-stupid-are-we.html

File 134196969942.jpg - (298.20KB , 864x813 , TMW2012-07-11colorlowres.jpg )

>>12812
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/07/10/1108393/-The-Chronicles-of-Mitt-July-10-2012

You know, for a group claiming to be hellbent on reducing the deficit, your stance on health care reform doesn't make a lick of sense. It reduces the deficit while simultaneously creating better health care outcomes for all Americans. Aren't you supposed to care about reducing the deficit?

File 134197253552.jpg - (78.88KB , 500x661 , BirtherPrime.jpg )

>>12809
Niggertits gotta Niggertits.

Although the original point of discussion has been all but forgotten, this thread is a beautiful example of how to troll a thread towards derailment, in this case via right wing textual diarrhea. The macro's were the final icing on the turd. One for the textbooks!

No one I know that protested had any of your stated goals, OP. Perhaps that's why they didn't satisfy those goals and you consider them a failure. By their own goals, it was a success. Their goals weren't quite as lofty as yours, I'm afraid. Sorry, OP.

>>12856
Pray tell, what were the achieved goals then?

>>12861
Exposing the Tea Party as an astroturf by showing everyone what an actual grassroots movement looks like.

>>12863
Regardless of how fake the teaparty is, they hold the republican party by the nuts whereas the democrats are running as far and fast as they can away from occupy.

but whatevs, have fun vying for scraps, attempting to 'regulate' the capitalist system. oh liberals and their silly bourgeois reforms

>>12864
>democrats are running as far and fast as they can away from occupy
Funny, when a party runs away from a group you wouldn't expect them to coordinate with them for call banks, voter registration drives, etc.

Actual grassroots movements aren't centrally organized, at least not until far later in their evolution. At the beginning they're organized on the local level. And on the local level many Organize groups have been very actively coordinating with the local Democratic candidates... or, at least, the ones they agree with.

Remember, grassroots = local. Not having a couple puppetmasters pulling your strings and demanding that everyone go in a particular direction, backing candidates that are as compatible with your beliefs as crude oil and water, doesn't mean you're not organized on a local level.

File 13431022718.jpg - (43.50KB , 480x455 , TreasuryYields.jpg )

>>12864
>'regulate' the capitalist system
Yes, those silly government regulations, that took the unregulated markets and banks of the early 1900s, which led directly to the Great Depression, and reigned them in, in the process causing the single greatest accumulation of wealth by the largest number of people in the modern age... right up until the deregulation faggots started removing regulations, and somehow we ended up in another depression.

BTW, did you know US debt is so enticing at this point that people, corporations, and governments are actually paying us to hold onto it? A negative percent means when it reaches maturity in 5, 7, 10, or 20 years they get back less than they paid. So government debt is bad... why?

>>12870
how cute, apologists from the left of the capitalist clusterfuck.

Here are a few wake-up calls you should probably heed.

The great depression was just one bubble of the inevitable larger and larger bubbles of the system as it begins to eat itself.

You bullshit reforms did nothing to accumulate that wealth in the post-war era- it was the fact that the four greatest competitors in the world-market- i.e. china, germany, japan and britain- were smoldering.

the increase in welfare state activity, the regulations, the taxes, all bandaids that the rightwing will blame for the collapse of their system when it comes, giving the scared populace the notion that capitalism just wasn't 'done right'.

Until you change the mechanism which furnish inequality, poverty and unemployment, as well as create disasteroud market activity such as bubbles and overproduction, you will will only overload the bourgeois state will useless welfare that it is not designed to furnish, thereby destroying the state and leaving the capitalist class unaffected.

You're all Ron Paul's wet dream.

>>12871
How cute, a 15 year old who thinks he knows everything there is to know about the world.

So the fact that financial collapse didn't happen until the market regulations enacted in the 1930s were removed, and new regulations not being put in place to provide adequate oversight & control of "new" financial markets (credit default swaps), were somehow not to blame for a repeat of the mistakes of the early 1900s, which were also caused by a failure to regulate and control the stock and financial markets.

You really need to leave your mom's basement once in a while. The fresh air will do you good.

>>12871
>china, germany, japan and britain- were smoldering.
China was too busy killing the very people who could get them out of the dark ages, just like the USSR.

And I assume you never heard that Germany, Japan, & Britain were rebuilt using US funds?

>>12876
mhm, and your 'regulation' will stop this activity? Did your regulators, under your 'progressive' president, stop the libor scandal? Did your timmy geithner do a thing about them? oh, that's right, he stood by and allowed it to happen, having full knowledge that it was in-fact going on. You stockhol-syndrome occupiers make me sick- we love the capitalist system, just not THAT capitalist system. You actually believe that capitalism, a system so revolutionary that it stamped out aristocracy and feudalism, can be stopped by regulation? All you'd be doing with those temporary bandages is extending the life of a system that would otherwise exhaust itself. And you wonder why your 'progressive' president and his 'progessive' party champion the invasion of tiny shitholes for the security of oil-markets. Fuck your whining horseshit and your young-turks talking-points, you occupy pansies aren't getting anything done and you never will.

>>12878
and? what happened then? oh, yeah, those countries eventually got off their feet and trounced the U.S. in every market- germany and japan in tech and auto, china in mass manufacture.

your 'prosperity' after the second world war was a lack of competition, not due to any 'reforms'. once a freer market is established and the U.S. is forced to compete and its artificially high wages are forced down, we see the face of capitalism and its quest for higher profit and cheaper labor, and we also see the futility in its 'regulation', as capitalism is far too good at revolutionizing industry to be stopped by any bourgeois reform ticket.

have fun blaming 'conservatives' and 'corporations' who are a symptom of the very system of exploitation and diminishing wages you seek to 'reform' rather than abolish.

>>12876
btw, you had a massive recession, savings and loan scandal, and the largest outsourcing of manufacture in the antion's history in the 80's- all before Glass-Steagall were repealed. let's also not forget that employment was also artificially high during the post-war period via war-manufacture which tapered off in the late 60's and lead to the economic slumps of the 70's and the recession of the 80's

>>12880
>eventually got off their feet
They got off their feet by the 60s.

I'll forgive you of your ignorance of this fact since you undoubtedly weren't alive then.

>>12882
you got me, I confess! I, like the vast majority of people on the internet, was not alive in the 60's.

Now, would you be so kind as to refute my assertion that the U.S.'s post-war prosperity was the result of a lack of competition, artificially high employment via war-industry and not your pansy-assed 'reforms'?

It'd also probably be to your credit to explain why there were recessions, savings and loan scandals, and flights of industry before the repeal of FDR era regulation and taxes remained high even on the rich- much higher than today's tax-rates, in fact.

If you don't feel like refuting and/or explaining any of that, promptly go occupy a noose.

>>12881
Savings and loan crisis happened before the formal repeal of GS, but it had already been gutted through the passivity of the executive regulators. Good regulation requires a watchdog that is constantly vigilant, like the SEC of the EPA - both of which have historically suffered from republican and corporatist infiltration and regulatory capture.
>>12880
Bullshit. There never really was a lack of competition; the UK, French, Belgian and Dutch industries made it through the wars relatively OK, taking only a few years to recover (about 4 - 5). Meanwhile, Iberia and Sweden were untouched. Those countries combined matched the US population at that time.
Fact of the matter is, social democracy worked fine for everyone involved for a good 30 - 40 years, until we saw the rise of Austrian economics.

And please, never again imply that anyone really believes Obama is a progressive. We know he isn't. When we talk about a regulated capitalism, we're thinking FDR, not BO.

>>12883
>was not alive in the 60's
Which is no excuse for your willful ignorance of the time period.

Americans just don't have that spark and ambition they used to have, because despite all our complaining, things have been pretty prosperous for us. Nobody's getting drafted to fight in wars, people aren't starving to death on the streets in droves, crime rates have been dropping steadily over the past couple decades. The youth movements of the 60s were comprised of people with strong convictions and a deep hatred for the middle-class. The modern youth movements are just middle-class college kids who romanticize these types of things and just want to feel like they are part of something important. I went to the protests and saw them with my own eyes, and from what I saw, less than 10% of the protestors were there for anything other than smoking weed and having fun and taking pictures to put on facebook. I saw one guy get pushed back by the police and he immediately collapsed on the ground screaming and pretending to be injured, trying to make people think he got beat up to incite a riot. The cops and even some of the protestors laughed at him.

>>12885
>>12886

wow, talk about magical thinking. everything was peachy-keen, social democracy was 'working' and western industry was tip-top. There were no massive strikes, no recessions, no collapses of industry once cold-war production began to ramp down, no artificial employment via war-production and swelling armies, no unemployment once said armies were demobilized, none of that. it was our good ol'fashioned regulation and state-charity that provided whatever prosperity was to be had.

That kind of cognitive dissonance would make for an interesting prychological study.

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Where occupy failed was its insistence on what Slavoj Zizek calls Capitalism with a human face- just a little more social welfare, a little more equality, a little more democracy etc. This is fundamentally the message of the bourgeois Democratic Party- don't be too mean to the ruling class, just ask them to furnish society with a little more money. This has the effect of, as again Zizek says, giving a child with a hare-lip a twenty-dollar surgery and allowing him to live a little better, but in the same system that produced him. They had no real message, and the message they had was fundamentally bourgeois- at least I believe so.

pic unrelated, but awesome.

>>12891
Anything like the cognitive dissonance in praising China despite the fact that they jail anyone who dares speak out about the murderous regime thats running the country?

>>12893
nobody praised china, only pointed out the fact that their sweatshop economy blows the U.S.'s out of the water when in comes to manufacture, and the U.S. can not, nor could it ever, compete.

>>12885
>And please, never again imply that anyone really believes Obama is a progressive
While true, Obama is more of a progressive than Romney is a conservative.

At least he is this week. Next week? Who knows!

>>12895
And yet, the U.S. is still the largest manufacturing nation in the world.

Oh, you meant cheap landfill-bound consumer market disposables. Yes, China has US beat in unskilled workers, devalued labor, subsidized materials infrastructure and environmental & worker abuses. Guess what you have to look forward to, China? And guess what you have to look forward to, 1st world cheapskates?

You're both fucked.

america and china are the only places in the world so we have to talk hypotheticals

or not, canada is about in the same shape as america, what many people forget is that there is a great deal of political leveraging and maneuvering that keeps the USA where it is today, for good or ill, manufacturing and otherwise


totally aside from this in terms of being it's own system more or less, the internal aspects of the nation, either inspire confidence or apathy, and these have effects on the general workforce and trust amongst individuals with each other

without that trust, in the social/business environment corporate racketeering appears to be the order of the day as opposed to a more socialist approach

by revealing the massive undercurrent of disdain for that greed is good world view, people can finally look to things like cooperatives, amongst other things

undermining private businessism and replacing it with social democracy with respect to true capitalism is far superior

slavoj doesn't really know what he's talking about in this case unfortunately, which is sad but oh well

crony capitalism has been described as socialism for the rich, free market for the poor

within social democracy, the masses, via the government, own key interests generally, like oil, but can lease or sell plots of land with the specific interest of developing oil, or wheat or whatever

this allows oversight into the matter by the representatives of the people

this is different from selling land mass wholesale and acting like a bunch of idiot indians who don't know the value of the land they've got rights to

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To succeed they have to stop being cultural-marxist faggots. If the white workers unite against both the theiving bankers and the brainwashing media they can do almost anything. If all peoples try to unite and pretend that they're not different peoples they can get large demonstrations and they can scream loud but nothing else.

>>12962
>nothing else
No, they can do plenty. They can make racists like yourself move to armed compounds in Montana and delude yourself with bullshit like you just spouted due to your extreme isolation from any semblance of modern society.

That's something.

>>12963

If you hadn't just made all that shit up then you would have a point.

>>12965
>made all that shit up
Nutters gonna nut I guess.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/adl/armed-and-dangerous/montana.html
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2011/winter/extremists-are-coming-together-in-mon
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/09/nation/la-na-mlk-bomb-20120209
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2011/11/16/high-country-extremism-armed-and-dangerous/183892

>>12966


I do not hate anyone for having another skincolours.
I do not live in Montana.
I am not armed.
I have contact with society.
The stuff i wrote was not bullshit.
They can do some stuff but not none of it is shit that matters, like building countries or such.

>>12966

Upon closer inspection i see that you wrote "like yourself" and not "you" so it was not completely opposite of truth.

>>12966

Upon closer inspection i see that you wrote "like yourself" and not "you" so it was not completely opposite of truth.

>>12967
>I do not hate anyone for having another skincolours.
I'm sorry, but when you write
>white workers
it's implied that you're being a racist dumbass.

>>12970
None of the stuff i wrote inlude any kind of hate or prejudice except for people who do not give a fuck about the message and have been trained to see racism in everything they do not agree with.

Non-white workers can build non-white countries. If different peoples (more different that the various europeans that moved to usa) try to lve in the same country and pretend that they're the same.

>>12973

*include but i meant implied

that is an incorrect view of the important differences in behaviour and societal roles, even if one were to assume genetics makes a different

skin colour has no bearing, and if one is to get into the nitty gritty arguments about this gene here and that gene there, then one must point out that it's combinations of genetics that have an impact, and that there are no conclusive studies on genetics and which leads to more civilized values and less and so on


at best, the most legitimate argument revolves around cultural and upbringing differences, but the biggest problem a society faces is too much ethnocentrism and racism to begin with

so that engaging in it oneself just makes everything go badly moreso

white supremacists always fail to understand this

I guess the best way to sum up white supremacists is...

"a white skinned version of mugabe"

>>12973
Well perhaps you can found one of those white countries and show us all how amazing the white race is.

Until then though, you're stuck living here, so get used to working with others. And if you can't, expect to get passed over for promotions and advancement, just like all antisocial assholes.

It was an obviously shitty idea from the beginning and anyone who can't see it is a moron

The tide is turning against global capitalism, but what towards remains a mystery. People still don't like socialists enough for them to have another shot at soviet-style communism. Not without a lot of rightist resistance still

>>13028
Obviously socialists can only attempt Soviet style communism

>>13072

You mean to say that Socialism and Communism are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS? That's just crazy talk.

>>13073
Even more crazy than the fact that Occupy Wallstreet wasn't a socialist movement?