won't happen because the jews aren't open to negotiating and the diehard allahu akbar fag muslims don't gain the palestinians any sympathy votes.

you're not wrong, but you left out the foil to hamas's armageddonism- and that's the eastern serttler armageddonism. the only way to stop a zealot is to kill them.

If you had to decide, how would you decide which is the lesser of the two evils?

I find it ironic that Palestinians (esp. in Gaza) have been shit upon by everyone going back to time immemorial, but the minute Israel starts shitting on them that's when the middle east goes berserk.

They're like an abusive ex-boyfriend who gets bent out of shape when someone else abuses their ex-girlfriend.

Who fucking cares? For an "advanced" and "civilized" people, the Israelites don't act any better than their many, many enemies. ...like a bunch of ignorant desert thugs.

Meanwhile, China continues to decimate the last truly peaceful people on earth and their culture, simply because they know they won't fight back, and yet not a single fucking word in the news about that. Every day, the most important thing going on we're all supposed to divert our attention to is... this one, same nation in the middle of a desert that can't get along with anybody.

Why? Nothing against the people there, but we seem to be expected to give an exponentially greater shit about them than anyone else in the world, for no apparent reason, and send them MAD fucking cash, enough to save entire civilizations, which they burn up and give us a great golden what in return for.

Not rational.

The root of the problem lies elsewhere. As long as there are Palestinians still living in refugee camps the situation will never normalize. They will forever keep breeding a new generation of butthurt young men who want some vengeance.

The second thing is that the Jews want their national state, so they can never truly reconcile with the Arabs. They have to be kept as the untermenschen, be kicked out or genocided.

>>13258
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino%E2%80%93Tibetan_War
No there is no such as thing as a peaceful country

>>13285
Oh that's nothing. The Tibetans were the most successful warriors in the world for a while, if you want to go back in time. They outright decimated entire armies from the surrounding nations without mercy.

But I'm not talking about those Tibetans, because they're dead. I'm talking about the ones alive, that make up Tibet today. In between, it was decided that all the killing and bloodshed they'd perfected wasn't a good thing, and that they'd nationwide stop it forever and focus their time & energy on the peaceful exploits of becoming better people and living less destructive lives instead.

These are the people Chinas is openly, systematically wiping out, just because "eh, who's going to stop us?", and which the US is quite happy to continue to ignore, if it means we can keep getting walmarts disposable junk made cheap by communist subsidization. ...oh but hey everybody, look, there was shooting in gaza! Let's spend all day, every day, emotionally outraged about this totally unprecedented humanitarian crisis!

Fucking bullshit as it all is in the US.

>>13288
Dude one must understand that the Mass media in the united states or in the world is fucked up and show only what it wants. Hell, i only started getting info about tibet because i moved to hong kong.

Mass media is just not properly done nowadays.

File 135417324940.jpg - (95.73KB , 536x800 , IDFGals03.jpg )

God is with us, we can wait. The land of Israel will be ours in time

Morality doesn't entry into it.

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Humanities/1907_November_29

>>13297
Who is "we"? And if god is with anyone, and god is all-powerful, why does that god need some puny humans to run around with guns shooting each other to solve it? Why does that god continually let a simple thing like a territorial dispute (pretty simple for a god who can create the universe with a thought and meddle in human affairs) idiotic conflict rage on indefinitely? That's some ineffective or indifferent god ya got there.

Some rhetorical responses to your satirical (I hope) musing.

>>13288
>focus their time & energy on the peaceful exploits of becoming better people and living less destructive lives instead.
You don't know the first thing about Tibet, do you? It was a feudal society in 1930 where people got their arms amputated for petty thievery.

>>13312
Too bad China didn't invade in 1930.

>>13312
Been there twice. Studied their history before during & after. I didn't say it was goddamn utopia paradisio for all time, & it wouldn't be relevant to the point I'm making if I did. Calm the fuck down and get to the point.

>>13318
Tibet was a slave and serf-holding theocratic tyranny, which regularly waged brutal war against surrounding Han and other ethnicities before the Chinese invasion.

Now, it's just a tyranny, where the Tibetan culture and ethnicity has to contend with an influx of outsiders and consumer culture, and is probably diluted by that, but no physical genocide takes place.

It's an improvement.

>>13338

Troll harder.

>>13344
>>13318
If all you bring is personal anecdotes and "trust me I've been there", then it is you who is the troll.

>>13347

1. Read this thread.
2. ...

Tibet was a very backwards and ugly place, even worse than China. That they worshiped their monks and had pipe dreams doesn't change the fact. China did have a right to invade, to civilize them.

Now the current Lama is a cool guy and better than the Chinese government but that's irrelevant.

>>13351
So I take it you support Israel over Palestine?

>>13351
>Tibet was a very backwards and ugly place

If you're going to troll, you might bother to do even a cursory search on the particular bridge you're squatting under. Cause of all the things you could have said, you chose... poorly.

Ezekiel 36:24 "'For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land."

Isaiah 66:8 Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children.

On May 14 1948 Israel was declared as a state fulfilling biblical prophecies and they were also attacked by 4 out of 7 nations of the Arab Alliance. This 1-day old nation didn't just defend themselves, they beat back the armies of many, many nations.

Never before has a group of people kept their national identity for thousands of years outside of their homeland and still returned to their original land. This was truly an epic win for the people of Israel and also the believers of prophecies of the Bible.

>>13422
How? What do they win?

Can we stop funding their insane deathwish apocalypse fantasy now?

How about the people of the world win a small nation in the middle east where women can expose some of themselves without having the fucking shit beat out of them by religious nutcases. Or that Jews, Christians, gays, moslems, can all be in the open about their lifestyle without being tortured, thrown in prison, and stoned to death.

And Israel has always been America's #1 ally in the Middle East.

>>13428
1. "Always" since 60 years ago.
2. There are far more deserving, peaceful, and decent people in the world that the fucking people of Israel.
3. #1 Ally? Oh, of all the shithole desert countries in the middle east. that's a pretty short list. We get nothing but a bill to pay from them and a continual source of global political instability & aggression. Yay, you're #1.
4. How long are we supposed to fund your summer camp there before we give up on that stupid bronze-age apocalypse mythology?
5. Fuck the Middle East, and Israel, and Palestine. Backward rock-smashers stuck in the ignorance of their past, all of em.

>>13430
Considering Israel didn't exist 61 years ago, always is correct.

While western civilization would love to nuke the entire middle east and turn it into a pretty colored glass, they have huge reserves of that pesky oil that the global economy loves so very, very much.

Maybe when the oil runs out we can try it your way.

>>13432
Right, so always, but not for even as long as my grandpa has been alive. That's how long they've been an "ally". Whoopee.

We won't even have to nuke em. Aside from openly and repeatedly threatening all their increasingly dangerous neighbors with preemptive and all-out world-ending nuclear war, Israel seeking a "pure" Jewish state to fulfill their idiotic bronze-age cult prophecy and bring about the end of the world will do that to itself. Won't that be a pinnacle of enlightenment, when the end times continue right on not happening, and they ramp up their internal ethnic cleansing effort to root out the "impure" until it's what, our job to save them from themelves? Truly noble people, & not another barbaric tribe of desert hicks at all. Definitely worth ignoring all the other humanitarian crises we could fix in a snap to prolong.

>>13435
Eh, it's not as though America's iron age cult is particularly better.

It's easy to formulate solutions when you're detached from it all but you have to realize that these people have emotion and patriotism and other shit wrapped up in it, and there's no way to reason with them.

>Hamas intentionally targets civilians and does not recognize Israel. It should reverse both those.
Hamas doesn't just "not recognize" Israel, they do not believe that it presently exists, nor that it will ever exist in the future. They don't believe there's anything to recognize in Palestine except Palestine. This point of view cannot be changed without their total extermination. Furthermore they do not recognize non-Hamas as civilians nor non-Muslims as humans: they are targeting dogs, not people. This strategy also cannot be changed without their total extermination.

>Israel keeps supporting illegal settlements and building new ones, and taking over strategic resources in the West Bank (water). They should stop doing that.
Israel is a big dumb fucking troll and they don't give a fuck how many people get shit on because of their retarded fucking nonsense. Furthermore, they see it as their right to settle anywhere they damn please, inside or outside of their country, for any reason they wish, and fuck anyone who says otherwise because they have the US in their pocket and God on their side. This point of view cannot be changed without their total extermination.

>Palestine becomes an independent state, Israel keeps a military presence. Both form an economic zone.
Palestine is an independent state. Palestine is the country that was reformed after WWII and administered by the British until their withdraw. Israel is the rebel stat that needs independence, according to historical fact. However, the international community has managed to turn this frown upside down, along with history, in order to support further escalation of the conflict. Neither party is interested in an economic zone; only the annihilation of their opposition. This problem cannot be solved with out the total extermination of both Israel and Palestine, or the total extermination of all first world nations.

tl;dr - The solution is simple: Kill every living person in Israel and Palestine or cut off all international support and let them do it themselves.

>>13262
Well if the Arabs would give their Palestinians refugees citizenship, rather than keeping them in ghettoes there wouldn't be this problem.

Yes I do know that Jordan did give the Palestinians Jordanian citizenship but none of the other Arab nations did this.

>>13459
Palestine was never a state. There was the mandate of Palestine, which was created after WW1 from the Ottoman Empire as a homeland for the Jews. There was never an independent state of Palestine before this.

Immediately after the British mandate ran out left the 2 parts with Jewish majorities declared themselves Israel, then Jordan annexed the Muslim West bank, and Egypt took a small part of the land and created something that wasn't part of Egypt (Gaza Strip).

So if there ever was a state of Palestine Israel split from it and was annexed by its neighbours as soon as it existed.

Also the Israelis don't want to exterminate the Arabs which is why 25% of Israel is made up of Arab who have opposed becoming part of other Arab states because Israel provides them with a better Government.

>>13464
The whole "there was no Palestinian state" is a tenuous argument on it's face. There were no Mozambican, Namibian, Angolan etc. states either before the decolonization (or even before colonization), yet international law and the international community recognized the right of those peoples to form their own independent state, and even use violence to achieve this.

Apply the same logic to Israel: there hadn't been a Jewish state in almost 2000 years. The majority of the population of what would become Israel did not originally live there, and were for a large part not even descendants of the original Jews (those mostly came in the second wave of immigration after Israel was already founded, from Iraq and North Africa). Yet Israel is recognized by and large.

For there to be a state, you need three things: defined territory, a population, and authority. For a people to have self determination, you need only one thing, that said people express that wish (preferably in a democratic manner).

There is a defined territory, the 1967 borders. There is a defined people, the Palestinians, who as you pointed out are seldom afforded citizenship by other Arab states - they are thus separate from those states. There is an authority in the former PA. There is the will of the Palestinians to be considered a people and have self-determination though various elections and their various representatives.