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/phi/ - Philosophy
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Anonymous 16/03/09(Wed)08:23 No. 12458 ID: 3ee603
12458

File 145750821398.jpg - (22.25KB , 900x600 , crop-538599cc8101c-imgID3636752.jpg )

Did Darwin answer the question of what the meaning of life is?


132 posts omitted. Last 50 shown.
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Anonymous 17/09/19(Tue)18:21 No. 13152 ID: 6af4de
13152

File 150583810965.png - (12.52KB , 1144x225 , DNA.png )

>>13145

>impossible in a practical sense

This. Fedora tippers have no idea what they're talking about.

Take pic related for instance. You have human DNA and orangutan DNA. The structure of DNA.is built up of four simple subunits. Each of our reproductive cells has a length of DNA encompassing approximately 3.2 billion of these subunits, but there are still only four of them: adenine, guanine, cytosine, and thymine, or A, G, C, and T. This creates a statistical oddity. Since genetic information is composed of DNA sequences, and there are only four elements to each DNA sequence, it follows that two DNA sequences can differ, on the average, by no more than 25 percent, and when we choose the alignment with the smallest numbers of mutational events, we still have to decide whether a gap “equals” a substitution, or whether a gap should be considered rarer and, therefore, worth, say, five substitutions, which make the similarity lower.

How similar are these stretches of DNA? There may be eight differences or eleven differences, depending on how we decide the bases correspond to each other across the species, and that is, of course, assuming that a one-base gap is also equivalent to a five-base gap and to a base substitution. This is the fundamental problem: What is the precisely corresponding subunit between these two? The one we choose will contain implicit information about what "evolutionary" events have occurred, which will in turn affect the amount of similarity we tally.

So basically, it's all guesswork. To say there is a 98 or 95% similarity and claim that it's a "proven fact" is ridiculous.


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Anonymous 17/09/22(Fri)08:49 No. 13156 ID: d15088

>>13152
The human and chimp genomes have been mapped. We know what all the genes do and where they are in the DNA sequence. It's not a difficult problem.

>This creates a statistical oddity. Since genetic information is composed of DNA sequences, and there are only four elements to each DNA sequence, it follows that two DNA sequences can differ, on the average, by no more than 25 percent
And you also fail basic math, so this ignorance shouldn't really be surprising. After all, your only argument is
>Darwin's theories were wrong, which means THE ENTIRE CONCEPT OF EVOLUTION IS BUNK!
Does that mean that, because the Geocentric model of the universe was wrong, that all of astronomy is fake...? You're like fucking flat-Earthers, you know that?


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Anonymous 17/09/22(Fri)18:10 No. 13158 ID: c1e2c7

>>13156

He's right, you know? Comparing orangutan, chimpanzee or gorilla DNA with human DNA is all guesswork. You're the one who lacks basic understanding of genetics.


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Anonymous 17/09/22(Fri)18:31 No. 13159 ID: c1e2c7

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v437/n7055/full/nature04072.html

>Through comparison with the human genome, we have generated a largely complete catalogue of the genetic differences that have accumulated since the human and chimpanzee species diverged from our common ancestor, constituting approximately thirty-five million single-nucleotide changes, five million insertion/deletion events, and various chromosomal rearrangements.

>35 000 000 changes
>5 000 000 insertions and deletions

Like a previous poster wrote: how do we know which corresponding subunit fits into another species DNA? The answer is that we don't know. Claiming that there is a 98 or 95 percent similarity is laughable.


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Anonymous 17/09/23(Sat)06:27 No. 13163 ID: fe9887

>>13159
Don't let the numbers terrify you. A DNA strand in one cell would stretch 2 meters across. Those are /a lot/ of base pairs. 35,000,000 is virtually nothing. Without being so hasty to copy and paste anything that fits your agenda in the name of confirmation bias, let's not get too excited that we forget to review the next few sentences after it:

In particular, we find that the patterns of evolution in human and chimpanzee protein-coding genes are highly correlated and dominated by the fixation of neutral and slightly deleterious alleles. We also use the chimpanzee genome as an outgroup to investigate human population genetics and identify signatures of selective sweeps in recent human evolution.

The relentless work of many scientists who actually understand what they are doing doesn't end from an ignorant fool who doesn't. I sure hope you don't think that the genome of a child, their siblings, and their parents are identical.


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Anonymous 17/09/23(Sat)07:51 No. 13164 ID: c1e2c7

>>13163

I think you're still ignoring the fact that there is zero evidence for the claim that humans come from apes.

>Through comparison

That means that they actually have no idea what the 35 000 000 changes are. Tell me then what the correctly corresponding subunits are.

Begin with the first one and count all of the right combinations all the way up to number 35 000 000. To say that means nothing is your excuse to cover up the holes in the so called "proof".


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Anonymous 17/09/23(Sat)08:18 No. 13165 ID: 6af4de

>>13164

>That means that they actually have no idea what the 35 000 000 changes are.

Exactly. The most comprehensive comparison there is, actually infinitesimal in scope, is about forty thousand bases of the region of some hemoglobin genes on chromosome 11.

Bits and pieces have been compared between humans and chimpanzees, amounting to less than 100,000 DNA bases in length. But there are 3.2 billion bases in a human genome, so obviously we have here a minuscule proportion and the comparison is biased toward regions that contain functional units, genes which tend to be where people look for DNA to sequence.

You can tell from the lack of comprehensive studies that DNA comparison between the two species is so flawed that it's scary to even call it scientifically valid.


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Anonymous 17/09/23(Sat)09:51 No. 13166 ID: c1e2c7
13166

File 150615308087.gif - (492.99KB , 485x380 , oooh.gif )

>>13165

>less than 100 000 nucleotides have been compared
>there are 5 000 000 insertions and deletions
>35 000 000 changes
>out of 3 200 000 000


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Anonymous 17/09/23(Sat)10:33 No. 13167 ID: 6af4de

>>13166

Not only that. mtDNA is a tiny fraction of DNA located outside the nucleus and because mtDNA mutates at a much higher rate than nuclear DNA two organisms, therefore, will be far more similar in their nuclear DNA than in their mtDNA.

It means that you have to conflate different mutational processes and call it evidence. But that's what fedora tippers do and always have.


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Anonymous 17/09/23(Sat)16:06 No. 13169 ID: fe9887

You let your stupidities encourage and re-enforce one another.

Go to the microscopic level, and DNA is really all that's there. We understand the idea behind mutations. What other possible explanation is there? There isn't one. That is because it is understood how DNA works, regardless of the few differences across species there may be.

Intelligence involves being able to look at events and deduce facts from these events that occur in a predictive fashion which is acceptable based on the fact that there is literally nothing else to look at at the atomic level of biology. If you understand the simple idea behind genetic mutations, and that the genome slightly changes with each generation, you will understand that reproductive change begins at the DNA level. Remove the theory, and you are resorting to witchcraft and divine powers which wouldn't surprise me given the lack of brain power you are putting forth to understand anything it seems.

You've never actually seen the evidence that we are heliocentric, yet you believe it I presume? Take the great "leap of faith" that this is the way things are given that we've explored almost everything in the system.

I can't expect really anything from you, though. You folks need special attention, and I'm always here to provide it to those in need.


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Anonymous 17/09/23(Sat)16:08 No. 13170 ID: c1e2c7

>>13168

There is no need to get upset. Just because you have no genetic evidence you don't have to throw a temper tantrum.


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Anonymous 17/09/23(Sat)16:27 No. 13172 ID: fe9887

>>13170
Unsurprisingly another baseless assumption... this time that I'm upset.

I'm just trying to help you. You're like a stubborn retarded child that needs their hand held along every step of the way.

The evidence is the logic of evolution and the similarities that have been documented already (a lot of effort will be needed to map the meanings of all the 35,000,000 differences).

For what ever reason your poor brain cannot understand, the logic speaks for itself. It's as simple as your ABCs and 123s. This is just an insult to yourself and your offspring.


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Anonymous 17/09/23(Sat)16:37 No. 13173 ID: c1e2c7

>>13172

>35 000 000 differences

....and comparing 3 200 000 000 bases "at at the atomic level", lol.


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Anonymous 17/09/23(Sat)18:16 No. 13175 ID: fe9887
13175

File 150618339115.png - (14.58KB , 489x399 , AT_DNA_base_pair.png )

>>13173
The genome is immediately compared based on the differences in sequence but the cause of each change is uncertain. Some are documented, most aren't. I'm not sure how much simpler one can get. You're still confused. People like you are a phenomenon. I'm not upset, a better word would be "amazed".


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Anonymous 17/09/23(Sat)18:19 No. 13176 ID: c1e2c7

>>13175

Once again: compare 3 200 000 000 bases and prove humans come from apes. Simple as that.


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Anonymous 17/09/23(Sat)18:22 No. 13177 ID: fe9887

>>13176
Wow. You are unbelievable.


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Anonymous 17/09/23(Sat)18:35 No. 13178 ID: c1e2c7

>>13177

You have no real evidence, you know that right? Stop being so upset about it.


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Anonymous 17/09/23(Sat)18:41 No. 13179 ID: fe9887

>>13178
Why do you assume things so freely? Where do you get the idea that I'm upset?

The logic and available explained differences thus far are the evidence. Even if 35,000,000 explained differences were laid out in front of you you wouldn't read any but one of them. Guess what: we did the same thing, but maybe a great handful more than one.

I daresay you have no reason to go against it especially when there is no other logic that can possibly support life. We know the bases are there, they serve a function, we understand that function, and it leads to only one conclusion: Evolution is the only logical explanation of life that will ever exist. I'll do you a favour and recommend that you to not endeavour academically in the sciences. If you focus on every tree in the forest rather than the forest as a whole, you will get absolutely nowhere.


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Anonymous 17/09/23(Sat)18:46 No. 13180 ID: c1e2c7

>>13179

The genetic data available is microscopic in terms of comparison. Out of 3 200 000 000 bases, there are only a handful that have been compared (40 000 in one chromosome).

You're grasping at straws here.


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Anonymous 17/09/23(Sat)18:53 No. 13181 ID: fe9887

>>13180
Do you think that flat-earthers think that sphere-earthers are grasping at straws too? You can pull any argument you think is valid (which happens to involve a number greater than /you/ can fathom, rather than a multi-core processor which does all the processing of DNA), but the fact remains that Evolution, and the Earth being spherical, is true, regardless if you understand it or not. Anyways, it's impossible to argue with the religious zealots, the flat-earthers, and likewise with you. I wish you all the best luck, you truly need it in a world that's getting smarter.


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Anonymous 17/09/23(Sat)19:04 No. 13183 ID: c1e2c7

>>13181
 
You keep deviating from the subject. As pointed out earlier by another poster there are different kinds of DNA that change at different rates and different ways. They aren't interchangeable when comparing bases because they're different in kind rather than amount. 

Keep spouting your self-affirming beliefs, though. Your fedora must be tilted to the maximum by now.


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Anonymous 17/09/26(Tue)07:23 No. 13184 ID: fbe3c3

>>13183
>You keep deviating from the subject
There is no subject. It's just you making shit up and then screaming at the top of your lungs like a toddler about "fedora tipping" whenever anyone disagrees.


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Anonymous 17/09/26(Tue)15:30 No. 13185 ID: 612b33

>>13183

You can tell from this thread that fedora tippers have no idea what genetics is about. They don't even have basic knowledge about it.


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Anonymous 17/09/26(Tue)17:29 No. 13186 ID: 6af4de

>>13185

>fedora tippers have no idea what genetics is about

The fact that mtDNA and DNA mutate at different rates and can't be compared is university tier knowledge. But manchildren that sit behind a computer screen all day never attend college or university. They just wallow in their own self-importance while they google Wikipedia articles.


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Anonymous 17/09/27(Wed)03:18 No. 13192 ID: fe9887

>>13186
A reminder that this person assumes there can't be noticeable strings of similarities and patterns using 4 base elements which comprise DNA.

An axiom which holds true in all cases:
An assumption of another's motive is only a reflection of oneself.

The beautiful irony is that you are more likely to be the one quickly researching before posting in an attempt to hold up your silly position.

Our reality is so well understood by people who possess logic that we have manipulated it using the properties of electrons to be able to communicate to each other across the globe in a tiny fraction of a second. The fact that you can sit in front of a logical device of our [rational beings] creation using these properties * and tell us that there exists no logic to a logical system forming the understanding of Evolution, similar to the logical system used in creating the computer, is a test of my patience with you. Both start at the atomic level (computer: electrons -> semiconductors -> NPN & PNP transistors, capacitors, resistors, diodes,... ; evolution: atoms -> molecules -> G A C T -> DNA -> mutations) to work up to a general idea or product. Evolution is as well-understood, realistic, and factually-based as the computer you use to tell us we are wrong. The DNA analyses and comparisons are even documented on said device.

Anyone but a fool will take you seriously.

* = (a computer, partly composed of billions of memory-storing transistors which have been expertly downsized to a near-atomic level for portability at /your/ convenience)


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Anonymous 17/09/27(Wed)05:59 No. 13193 ID: c1e2c7

>>13186

Yeah, pretty much. Wikipedia reading armchair experts are hilarious. Like watching a kindergartener playing with fingerpaint.


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Anonymous 17/09/27(Wed)07:43 No. 13194 ID: 0e52b1

>>13184
> It's just you making shit up and then screaming at the top of your lungs like a toddler about "fedora tipping" whenever anyone disagrees.
That's pretty much par for the course for /phi/ these days.

One sad pathetic little boy claims he knows everything, skims wikipedia to know what he should claim is wrong because his grade school teacher he had a crush on told him wikipedia is always wrong, then doesn't bring up any specifics besides fedora tipping and other pointless bullshit to distract from the topic at hand.

Notice how never claims what IS correct, only what is NOT correct. That's because of his wikipedia skimming. Everything there is wrong, but he has no idea what's right.


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Anonymous 17/09/27(Wed)14:03 No. 13195 ID: 49dbf2

>>13193

Fedora tippers repeat whatever they get told to believe. That's why mediocre charlatans like Dawkins have such a huge fanbase. Neckbeards keep on spewing funnay maymays and masturbate to their own pseudo intellectual know-how.


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Anonymous 17/09/28(Thu)11:23 No. 13196 ID: 2013f3

>>13195

>Neckbeards keep on spewing funnay maymays and masturbate to their own pseudo intellectual know-how.

This. Every atheist in a nutshell.


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Anonymous 17/09/29(Fri)09:47 No. 13198 ID: 16cd3d

>>13186

The closest a fedora tipper comes to an education is playing sci-fi video games and watching Star Trek.


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Anonymous 17/10/01(Sun)18:26 No. 13200 ID: 6afcdf

>>13198
I'm just passing by to state that there's nothing wrong with video game/star trek/wikipedia education, only a fool who's so absorbed by his own academic achievements or a fool who's so susceptible to the perceptions that the academic churches, I mean schools manage to distribute. Fuck academies, if I had a dime for every academic idiot I met so far, Trump wouldn't be president now. A diploma doesn't make you anything less of a pseudo-intellectual, in fact, I'm biased to think of you more as a self-righteous prick whose main knowledge base is the stinking residue of years of indoctrination and elimination of real thought, logical or otherwise.
Go suck some dusty old man's dick, every sip makes you smarter! ;)


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An Idiot 17/10/01(Sun)22:52 No. 13201 ID: 19870e

>>12458
Suppose that evolution isn't environmentally determined, then how would it be determined? Chance? Chance for what exactly then?
We might as well be discussing the re-emergence of perpetua mobilibus or geocentric theories.


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Anonymous 17/10/02(Mon)12:21 No. 13202 ID: e14bb1
13202

File 150693971982.jpg - (14.01KB , 383x300 , cringe7-1.jpg )

>>13200

Silly sheep! You are not truly enlightened like myself. I have graduated from the university of Wikipedia and read over 9000 Wikipedia articles. As a freethinker I have ascended beyond puny diplomas and good grades. From my mothers basement I acquire knowledge that is out of your reach, you plebian.

*tips fedora*


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Another Idiot 17/10/02(Mon)14:31 No. 13203 ID: b2041f

>>13202
My basement is far more enlightened than yours, I've assembled a free energy device, and I painted the walls with 10 000 000 LED's!

* tips fedora five times *


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Anonymous 17/10/02(Mon)15:43 No. 13205 ID: 33df00
13205

File 150695181855.jpg - (32.03KB , 512x512 , ZT-187nr.jpg )

>>13202

>this post

Can't handle all that intelligence. I just got a euphoria overdose.


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Anonymous 17/10/05(Thu)09:29 No. 13209 ID: 32ca83

>>13202

Truly enlightened by your intelligence. Doesn't get more euphoric than that.


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Android app developer Danieldiock 17/10/06(Fri)17:28 No. 13215 ID: 306cec


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Anonymous 17/10/07(Sat)19:21 No. 13216 ID: 6af4de
13216

File 150739691196.png - (61.40KB , 300x250 , dpkEdaX3Gz-14.png )

>>13193

Couldn't have said it better myself.

>>13198

>The closest a fedora tipper comes to an education is playing sci-fi video games and watching Star Trek

Yeah. Sad, but true. Creepy manchildren that howl like autists and furiously type uninformed garbage on the Internet. Not only is mtDNA and DNA comparison like comparing apples and oranges but the chromosomes of humans and chimpanzees also differ in a slightly more complex treatment known as C-banding. C-banding mark specifically a few chromosomal zones containing highly redundant DNA sequences (satellite DNA). In the human the characteristic zones are at the middle (centromere) of each chromosome, slightly below the centromere on chromosomes 1, 9, 16, and make up most of the Y chromosome.

We are the only species with such a pattern. If one looks at the chimpanzee’s cells using the identical procedure then the marked regions of chromosomes 1, 9, 16, and Y do not contain satellite DNA.


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Anonymous 17/10/09(Mon)11:29 No. 13218 ID: 09a262
13218

File 150754139527.jpg - (6.97KB , 240x210 , images-1.jpg )

>>13200

>I'm just passing by to state that there's nothing wrong with video game/star trek/wikipedia education, only a fool who's so absorbed by his own academic achievements or a fool who's so susceptible to the perceptions that the academic churches, I mean schools manage to distribute. Fuck academies, if I had a dime for every academic idiot I met so far, Trump wouldn't be president now. A diploma doesn't make you anything less of a pseudo-intellectual, in fact, I'm biased to think of you more as a self-righteous prick whose main knowledge base is the stinking residue of years of indoctrination and elimination of real thought, logical or otherwise. 
>Go suck some dusty old man's dick, every sip makes you smarter! ;)


>>
Anonymous 17/10/09(Mon)17:14 No. 13219 ID: 4306a0

Samefaggotry approaching critical mass


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Anonymous 17/10/09(Mon)19:24 No. 13220 ID: c1e2c7

>>13216

They sit behind a computer screen all day long. Their whole lives revolve around being autistic savants without the savant, hence their repulsive personalities and lack of education.


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Anonymous 17/10/10(Tue)06:37 No. 13222 ID: 6af4de

>>13220

I think their repulsive personalities stem from mental illness. If you sit in front of a computer screen all day you're either schizophrenic or autistic.


>>
Anonymous 17/10/10(Tue)13:33 No. 13223 ID: 0387ca

>>13222

Speaking of mental illness: should insane people be allowed to use the Internet? Considering that, schizophrenics for example, live in a literal fantasy world of their own and poison the Internet with wacky conspiracy theories based on their own hallucinatory delusions.

I mean, to some extent they're more dangerous when they have free access to the outside world. At least an asylum keep them contained.


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Anonymous 17/10/11(Wed)03:19 No. 13224 ID: 1cc147

>>13223
Enforceability strikes me as the greatest challenge here. How will we know who's mentally ill on the internet? Sure, some stand out: >>/rnb/21604, >>/b/772913, >>13158. But "crazy" isn't black and white, there's a whole rainbow of psychosis out there and who will split the moderately insane from the "healthy" internet users?


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Anonymous 17/10/12(Thu)11:35 No. 13226 ID: 2013f3
13226

File 150780090586.jpg - (37.35KB , 750x419 , jones13n-1-web.jpg )

>>13223

No. Insane people should be locked up. Pic related is one of the reasons why. Not only does he scam regular people with his utterly useless "products" but he is schizophrenia enabler. His target audience is mostly lunatics that actually believe his sci-fi Orwellian conspiracy theories.

You'd have to be a basket case to take him seriously.


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Anonymous 17/10/14(Sat)14:06 No. 13228 ID: 32ca83

>>13216

It becomes quite clear that fedora tippers have, even at a cellular level, not a single shred of evidence to support Darwins amateurish theory with.

How they take themselves seriously is beyond my understanding.


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Anonymous 17/10/18(Wed)11:40 No. 13229 ID: 9e2079

>>13228

They never had any proof to begin with.


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Anonymous 17/10/19(Thu)08:54 No. 13230 ID: 32ca83

>>13229

Exactly. The only "proof" they have is resemblance. "WOW, monkeys are bipedal, just like us! WHOA! Apes can use rocks and sticks as tools, just like us!"

Other than that they have nothing.


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Anonymous 17/10/19(Thu)17:31 No. 13231 ID: f789f7

We'll never find the meaning of life.


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Anonymous 17/10/20(Fri)14:42 No. 13232 ID: 487af6

>>13231

Maybe somebody have figured it out and you have not?



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