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/phi/ - Philosophy
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Free Will Anonymous 16/12/23(Fri)13:13 No. 12759 ID: 4da869
12759

File 148249522875.jpg - (44.44KB , 515x248 , FreeWill.jpg )

You have 10 seconds to prove why this guy isn't 100% correct.

Pro tip: you can't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4k07oeDFUg


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Anonymous 16/12/23(Fri)21:28 No. 12760 ID: ca3ceb

So, we have like 10 seconds to type out a response or what?


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Anonymous 16/12/23(Fri)23:14 No. 12761 ID: 4da869
12761

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>>12760
You can use however much time you need.

Free will doesn't exist in an abstract context governed by the laws of physics. In fact, in this context, "free will" is a non-nonsensical concept. What would even HAVE free will in this context? Atoms? Bunches of atoms? You would have to personify something before you can even ask if it has free will or not. It makes no sense to personify an atom and then ask whether the atom is making decisions. This is why people think free will doesn't exist.

BUT in an abstract context governed by the laws of human consciousness, in this abstract context of life that we live in, free will does exist. This is because emergent phenomenon contexts are just as real as their underlying context. For instance, everyone agrees multiplication is real. Multiplication is just a more abstract version of addition, it is a different context with different rules. Human consciousness is just a more abstract form of it's underlying brain cells and atoms. No matter how abstract or not-abstract something is, as long as it has a underlying reality based on real quarks and such that I could drive to and literally point to with my finger, that means that it is real. Free will is real if you are observing the world in a certain context. Just like atoms are real ONLY when observing the world through a certain context. And the thing is, any context is just as real and as valid as any other context.


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Anonymous 16/12/23(Fri)23:19 No. 12762 ID: 4da869

>>12761
>non-nonsensical
supposed to be nonsensical obv


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Anonymous 16/12/27(Tue)21:17 No. 12764 ID: 16a89f
12764

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>>12759
Because it's al lies to support his lurianic masters and destroy all that is holy?
Shadilay, we will won. Praise Kek!


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Anonymous 16/12/30(Fri)06:36 No. 12771 ID: 42bd0a

The video is just reductionist nonsense. Free will describes action. All he describes behaves the way it does because the underlying function of the universe requires it to do so.

Buddhist philosophy has explained free will better than any other school.

All actions arise independently from one another, but are influenced by the origination of one another. To use the examples from the video, an atom becomes because a proton was.

However, atoms do not exist because they choose to exist. The existence of atoms is a function of the mechanics of the universe. They do not have free will until they are put into a context of a system.

The system of a human has 'free will' because of the origination of the components of its being. In this way, it has free will, and does not have free will because there was a previous requirement for its capacity to choose.

The answer is not that we have free will or we do not have free will - very few things in existence boil down to such simple abstractions. Cause and effect represent both free will, and the deterministic consequences of free will at the same time.


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Anonymous 16/12/30(Fri)12:14 No. 12772 ID: 4da869

>>12771
>All he describes behaves the way it does because the underlying function of the universe requires it to do so.

Correct. It is always the universe acting the only way it can. Changing the WAY that you look at it doesn't change the underlying thing that is happening.

>They do not have free will until they are put into a context of a system.

That is precisely what the video is saying. Free will does exist, and free will does not exist, at the same time. It depends on what context you are looking at.

> In this way, it has free will, and does not have free will

Exactly.

(Thanks fam, I appreciate the discussion)


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Anonymous 17/01/02(Mon)18:56 No. 12781 ID: f3ebab
12781

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>>12771
Free will can exist in the world of the noumenal if you want to go the Kantian route. As long as you posit that the mind structures its appearances and thus uses concepts, or as Kant would call it, "categories" there is no contradiction in positing freedom in the noumenal and having the effect or consequence of freedom be posited in the phenomenal realm. That is, to sum up the argument that Kant makes: there are certain concepts that structure our reality and once you go beyond these concepts that structure your experience you go beyond the phenomenal realm and into the noumenal. Thus there is a distinction between phenomenal and noumenal, the thing-in-itself and the world of appearance. There would be no contradiction in positing freedom in the noumenal and then positing freedom's effects in the world of empirical conditions and conditioned, except the empirically conditioned would just be seemingly and substantially noumenal. The Kantian perspective is a bit clearer than the Buddhist in my opinion.It almost seems like we're saying the same thing in different words though.

Kant's proof for free-will is brilliant.


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Anonymous 17/01/22(Sun)10:19 No. 12797 ID: ed8b6e

Do we get a choice as if we want to?
Cause I don't really want to.


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blue 17/04/18(Tue)22:03 No. 12902 ID: 4515bc

tht was actually kinda interesting



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