Not an expert on web development, but JS is worth learning to reduce server load by making the client do things, however, it cannot be relied on because not every client will support or allow javascript.

I'd say the bare minimum for developing a website would be some SQL knowledge (how to modify/access data within a particular database at least), PHP, which in itself requires HTML knowledge. CSS is important as well.

uhh. thats all I got.

>>3307

HTML and CSS are for displaying information.

Javascript is used for changing that information.

Unfortunately you'll never be able to create truly interesting website without JavaScript. I say unfortunately because I think JavaScript and the DOM are a fucking disgraceful mess as engineering tools.

What concepts are you struggling with? Is it the way JavaScript interacts with the document and the user, or just the programming concepts? The former, in my opinion, is messy and difficult, which makes JavaScript a really poor first programming language (HTML and CSS aren't programming languages - they represent data, not algorithms).

If you're struggling with learning the general programming concepts, I would suggest learning a different, less fuck-ugly language. I would recommend Java. Once you've got your head round programming in general, JavaScript might come a bit easier. Also, programming is fun.

On the other hand, might I suggest you buy/pirate a PDF of one of the O'Reilly "Head First" textbooks. There's probably one called "Head First JavaScript", and I would imagine it would be pretty good - it's a good series.

Sincerely,
A slightly manic programmer who just stumbled across this board while looking for porn.

>>3322
>Unfortunately you'll never be able to create truly interesting website without JavaScript.
Google, Wikipedia and even our dear 7chan work well without running any JavaScript. This depends on the definition of "truly interesting" you use, I suppose, but I prefer no JavaScript over abusing it like most websites do.

>>3325
What you call abuse is no longer. JavaScript has quietly reached maturity among with HTML 5 defined APIs. Now we have real IO, sound and graphics. Complete with jQuery that adds GUI-like properties and less that lame substitutes for concurrency and we are set.

>>3325
Google, Wikipedia and 7Chan all use JavaScript (although they could be used without them). Of course, by "interesting", I mean in presentation, and from the perspective of a web designer, not in context.

On the "abuse", I would actually argue that the majority of web design techniques amount to abuse! That's why I suggested OP might be more interested in learning programming in a nicer environment like Java.

>>3332
*"content" not "context" lol

Everyone, thank you for your answers. They're very helpful.

>>3307
For hobbyism, you can get away with whatever you want. I'll definitely say JS can be used to make user interaction more convenient (i.e. imagine a chan that tells you your post is too long BEFORE it submits postdata to the imageboard script and tells you about it) and it can definitely save on server side processing, but on the whole, you should look at it as a convenience thing (i.e. my imageboard has exactly the feature I described above, although I STILL verify post length serverside just in case).

Do you already into programming, OP? Personally, JS's syntax itself isn't too strange...it's just...long winded (document.getelementbyid.scoot.poop.ninja.turd(ningon.jungle.penis....)
To me, the bitch-ass-ness of JS comes into play with how things are executed (i'm SOOOO used to PHP). You need to lrn2 into encapsulating algorithms into functions...mainly because shit only ever get's executed by "events"...that aspect of JS kept me from learning it for years! Essentially, write function, and then tie that function to an event, and when even happens, function is exec.

1/??

>>3354
also, you need to consiter your audience like shit too. For instance, I'm about to start working on a web app for TOR. I most certainly won't use ANY javascript for that, mainly because the tinfoil hat audience there (rightly) disables JS by default.
Likewise, JS can be a bitch with cross browser shit. IE implements literally a different language than everyone else (JScript rather than JavaScript...still 90% ECMA though...)

Still, you ask, is it "worth it"? Well, yes. Bluntly, JS+HTML5 is where it's at today. Other than that, you can add dynamic "shit" for your users' convenience, so, unless you're coding for the deepweb, yes, JS is useful, although you need to keep it in mind as an "optional enhancement" rather than as the center of your gameplan...

2/??

javascript is an odd language compared to python/rails/java etc. it has similar syntax with brackets and function arguments but its scope is weird because of closures and the prototypical inheritance thing is strange. its a cool language but really shouldn't be your first (html and css don't count as a 1st programming language). adding to the weirdness of javascript is the clusterfuck that is the DOM. most of peoples beef with javascript is actually a problem with interacting with the DOM and differences between browsers.

Try learning some python to get a feel for how programming works. You don't have to read a giant book or anything, just a few tutorials on youtube or a torrent and you'll be in better shape for playing with js. Showing a relative newb a self invoking anonymous function to control the scope of variables as an introduction to programming is just not the best way to go about teaching the fundamentals.