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Anonymous 17/01/16(Mon)06:55 No. 16414 ID: 57a468
16414

File 148454611224.jpg - (139.65KB , 630x916 , 5852d7ef120000c40beef7dd[1].jpg )

A mental health question for armchair psychiatrists.

Gender dysphoria is a mental health disorder as described in the DSM-5 as someone who identifies as something other than their assigned biological sex. Given that psychiatry still follows the scientific method as to making decisions over what is and isn't a mental disorder. There are still legitimate causes of such individuals.

My question is targeted toward those individuals who somehow manged to turn 'being transgender' into a trend. While they haven't done much to really affect the lives of others unless the lives of others are affected by whining and bitching about their lives on Tumblr without, as they say, checking their privileges. I want to know what a proper diagnosis would be for certain transtrending social justice warriors who encourage violence.

From what I read, gender dysphoria is a fairly weak disorder that most likely isn't the culprit of such extremism. So is it possible that schizophrenia or another such disorder may also be effecting said people? While I do believe a few of them may legitimately be transgender who only seek to find a voice and somehow end up falling into a bad group. There are still a majority of them that make me question their beliefs.

I probably should be asking these questions on a psychiatry forum instead of a chan website, but whatever, I anticipate some negativity.


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Anonymous 17/01/18(Wed)10:29 No. 16418 ID: a97099

You should anticipate nothing; this board gets at most a few posts per week.

As for your topic, I can't even really tell what you're asking, as it's all very disjointed. Relying on what the DSM states is a "mental disorder" is problematic because it changes all the time. Up until the 90's, homosexuality was in there, too. I would describe both this, and gender dysphoria, as more of a "social disorder". There's nothing wrong or correctable with the person's brain chemistry, it's a problem with society and how the person fits inside of it. Nobody claims that there's something wrong with a car's engine when you try to take it offroad and it gets stuck because it doesn't have 4-wheel drive. That's basically what is going on here.

I never even understood why it's an issue. Why would anyone give the tiniest flying fuck if a person with a dick decided to wear dresses and makeup? Or decides to cut off their dick? Or wants us to call them by a different set of pronouns? Humans are so godfuckingly moronic to start riots and wars over such meaningless garbage as this.

There is no diagnosis for vocal "SJW"s, any more than there is one for those Westboro types who picket gay funerals. It's called "being a fucking asshole". Unfortunately, the government has largely transformed from a system of preventing this sort of thing, to one that enables it. Every branch is currently under the control of the party that runs with fearmongering as its official platform, and laughs because the more it sets the population against itself in smaller and smaller groups, the more money they get to stuff into their pockets. People fighting over transgender rights, and freedom to carry guns, and other completely pointless nonsense, are far too busy to bother with things like government corruption.

The DSM includes in every diagnosis the requirement that said disorder cause meaningful and unwanted disruption to someone's life. So someone with schizophrenia only REALLY has schizophrenia if they're bothered by it. If they don't give a fuck, it doesn't matter; hence the semi-jocular "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it". Since people who have gender dysphoria are bullied or abused for it, it fits the bill. That's because the DSM (erroneously, in my opinion) isn't simply an objective description, it's focused on fixing the disorder. The real issue here might be that psychatrists are unfounded megalomaniacs who think they can poke around in a person's brain and make things all better, when they still have no idea how the fuck it works on more than a macro level. They're mechanics whacking at an engine with a wrench, when they don't even know how internal combustion functions, and thinking themselves so smart for it.


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Anonymous 17/01/19(Thu)10:53 No. 16423 ID: ef54e2

>>16418
>There's nothing wrong or correctable with the person's brain chemistry
Citation needed.

>Why would anyone give the tiniest flying fuck if a person with a dick decided to wear dresses and makeup? Or decides to cut off their dick?
So, by the same token, no one should give a fuck if someone cuts their wrists or attempts suicide? Because the only difference between someone who self-harms because of some psychosis or whatever and someone who gets gender reassignment surgery and hormonal treatment because they they have gender disphoria is that the latter is done by doctors. But in both cases the person is irreversibly mutilating their bodies because of a mental issue.

>The real issue here might be that psychatrists are unfounded megalomaniacs who think they can poke around in a person's brain and make things all better, when they still have no idea how the fuck it works on more than a macro level. They're mechanics whacking at an engine with a wrench, when they don't even know how internal combustion functions, and thinking themselves so smart for it.
Yeah, fuck progress! Who cares that the only way to know if a treatment works is by trying it out? Nah, fuck that. We should stop trying to improve things and just settle with our lot. If a better solution existed we would've found it by now, right?


>>
Anonymous 17/01/21(Sat)08:06 No. 16424 ID: 785374

>>16423
I don't care if someone self-harms, or even self-terminates. There's enough people on this planet, and most of them who will amount to nothing of importance, that we can spare a few of them. Humanity isn't going extinct just because of a few people removing themselves from the gene pool due to genital mutilation or suicide.

That said, I feel the only point of wondering why they do this is for the theoretical knowledge. To help us maybe understand ourselves a little bit. There is no "fixing" of people's minds, generally speaking, especially of something as complex as a social disorder masquerading as a mental one. And I feel it's a bit arrogant to say that some body modifications are okay, like tattoos or piercings, but others are not, just because they are "permanent".

The only reason people get upset about this is because they threaten their own personal definition of what it means to be a man. Like how it is with gays. It's ridiculous and a pointless waste of effort. Live your own life; that's all you can do. The only thing you're going to be able to control is what you do with your own two hands.


>>
Anonymous 17/01/21(Sat)11:51 No. 16425 ID: ef54e2

>>16424
>There's enough people on this planet, and most of them who will amount to nothing of importance, that we can spare a few of them.
Alright, since you believe that, I assume you'd be willing to do your part and forgo treatment in case of life-threatening trauma or illness.
It's easy to ignore the value of human life when it's not your ass on the line.

>There is no "fixing" of people's minds, generally speaking
Again, citation needed.

>especially of something as complex as a social disorder masquerading as a mental one.
What about this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integrity_identity_disorder
Would you argue that someone believing that they should be disabled and therefore resorting to amputating their own limbs is also a social disorder?

>And I feel it's a bit arrogant to say that some body modifications are okay, like tattoos or piercings, but others are not, just because they are "permanent".
I wouldn't say "not okay". I'd say "less preferable".
That aside, no. The reason is that a) a piercing does not significantly alter one's biological functions, and b) people who get piercings don't do it to alleviate a mental condition.

>The only reason people get upset about this is because they threaten their own personal definition of what it means to be a man.
Perhaps you are projecting.
I can't speak for others but a) my objection to these treatments comes from their subpar results (as transgenders are still highly more likely to commit suicide than the general population) and from them trying to fix a mental issue through surgical means; and b) someone who has undergone gender reassignment doesn't threaten my definition of "man" any more than a black horse painted with white stripes threatens by definition of "zebra".


>>
Anonymous 17/01/22(Sun)03:49 No. 16426 ID: ed8b6e

A better question:

For what reasons are you unable to move on from "SJW"? Psychologically I find it very interesting how much other people's psychology bothers you.


>>
Anonymous 17/01/23(Mon)05:33 No. 16428 ID: 1c9658

>>16425
I really hate greetexting. It's cherry-picking of what parts of the argument you want to debate because you can't debate the whole thing.

First of all, you're making a bizarre and idiotic mistake of conflating something that someone else wants being prevented, and something that *I* want being allowed. These are not the same thing. If I want life-saving treatment, I should get it, but if someone wants sex-reassignment surgery, they should NOT be able to get it? You can't have it both ways.

A better way to frame that would be to ask whether or not life-saving treatment should be WITHHELD from me because it doesn't fit your idea of how an ideal society works. That sounds Orwellian and terrifying, but that's exactly what you are proposing: that people should not be allowed to make decisions on what to do with their own bodies; that some lofty idea of "normal" should be upheld at all costs. "Normal" is the reason why nearly 50% the baby boys in America get half their dick skin cut off.

Do you also believe that people should not be able to commit suicide if they are terminally ill and in constant pain? What about monks or protestors burning themselves alive? Your complaint that transgender surgeries have mixed results is valid, but the correct method to fix this is to make standards of treatment better, not tell people they can no longer get the treatment at all; they'll just resort to blackmarket approaches which will be even worse, same result as banning abortion. You speak a lot about scientific "progress", while your argument desires to suppress it by eliminating any need.

Basically, what I'm asking is: are you still so naive that you think you can "save" everyone in the world? That you can enact some legislation through the power of science and get rid of all pain and suffering and suicide? It's a grand and noble idea, but completely futile. There are tens of thousands of people getting blown to salsa, every day, all over the world, in the name of making it a better place for one group or another. If you want to make a difference, focusing on a teeny-tiny little group with "white-people problems" just because the Republicans have told you that these people are mentally ill, isn't the right way to go about it. Why don't you go volunteer for the Red Cross/Crescent if your altruism needs masturbating?

Personally, I don't care. I don't have time to care. I recognize that humans are horrible beings with a litany of mental problems, most of which can't be fixed by any means because change comes from within. Instead of sitting in a corner crying because people are dying horribly, I've accepted it and moved on with my life. You should do the same.


>>
Anonymous 17/01/24(Tue)00:35 No. 16429 ID: 57a468

>>16418
> Relying on what the DSM states is a "mental disorder" is problematic because it changes all the time.

So basically it follows the scientific method?


>>
Anonymous 17/01/24(Tue)20:08 No. 16430 ID: 8b2816

>>16428
>If I want life-saving treatment, I should get it, but if someone wants sex-reassignment surgery, they should NOT be able to get it?
I think you should get life-saving treatment if you want and need it, and that if someone has gender disphoria they should have the option of effective psychological treatment. If someone still wants to mutilate their body even in that case, that's their business.

>are you still so naive that you think you can "save" everyone in the world?
Are you so stupid that you think that since there will always be some people who can't be helped, that we should stop trying to improve things?

The rest of your post is based on a mischaracterization of my position, so there's no need to respond to it.


>>
Anonymous 17/01/24(Tue)21:36 No. 16431 ID: 57a468

>>16430
> that if someone has gender disphoria they should have the option of effective psychological treatmen

The legal process of gender reassignment already involves psychological examination prior to even being prescribed hormones.


>>
Anonymous 17/01/24(Tue)21:40 No. 16432 ID: 8b2816

>>16431
I'm referring to a purely psychological/psychiatric treatment.


>>
Anonymous 17/01/24(Tue)23:57 No. 16433 ID: 57a468

>>16432
By purely psychological/psychiatric treatment you're referring to a conservative quack who'd diagnosis them as schizophrenics?


>>
Anonymous 17/01/24(Tue)23:59 No. 16434 ID: 57a468

>>16432
This is already done. What is it that you think they do?


>>
Anonymous 17/01/25(Wed)04:04 No. 16435 ID: ef54e2

>>16433
No, a diagnosis is not a treatment, obviously.


>>
Anonymous 17/01/26(Thu)19:24 No. 16437 ID: 57a468

>>16435
Therapy is a treatment which leads to a diagnosis for more treatment.

That also doesn't answer the question.

I am getting the impression that you don't know a thing about mental disorders and/or psychiatry. You also do not seem to know how science or the scientific method works when you say that the DSM isn't something to go by because "it changes".

I advise you to get familiar with how science is done before you fall victim to more dogmatic beliefs.


>>
Anonymous 17/01/26(Thu)20:02 No. 16438 ID: 8b2816

>>16437
>Therapy is a treatment which leads to a diagnosis for more treatment.
I didn't say "therapy". The words I used were "effective treatment".

>I am getting the impression that you don't know a thing about mental disorders and/or psychiatry. You also do not seem to know how science or the scientific method works when you say that the DSM isn't something to go by because "it changes".
Huh? When did I say that? I'm ef54e2 and 8b2816. Try to follow the reply chain, buddy. You can't have a conversation if you don't know who you're replying to.


>>
Anonymous 17/01/27(Fri)03:10 No. 16439 ID: 57a468

>>16438
ID numbers don't mean shit if your statements are false.
> effective treatment
Therapy is a part of that 'effective' treatment. Did you even bother looking up what actually goes on whenever someone holds feelings of gender dysphoria or are you just trying to give a bullshit answer to cover up what you really mean?

Just fucking say you don't believe in the diagnosis. It doesn't matter either way because it exists and is present in the DSM-5. This isn't something a group of psychiatrists just make up off the top of their heads. It took years of observing and testing to arrive at what is in the current model. Saying that you cannot rely on this more or less implies you cannot rely on any other scientific field because of 'changes'.


>>
Anonymous 17/01/27(Fri)03:34 No. 16440 ID: ef54e2

>>16439
>Therapy is a part of that 'effective' treatment.
I didn't imply it wasn't. I'm not concerned with what the treatment is. I'm just saying there has to be a better way to treat a psychological disorder than body modification.
Which, incidentally, isn't that effective, considering the rate of suicides among transsexuals who have undergone gender reassignment is considerably higher than that among the general population.

>Just fucking say you don't believe in the diagnosis.
>Saying that you cannot rely on this
I don't have to answer for something I didn't say. But, hey, you can keep talking to the wall if you like.


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Anonymous 17/01/27(Fri)21:41 No. 16441 ID: 57a468

>>16440
> I don't have to answer for something I didn't say.
You don't have to say it. Your words are implying it. Now it looks like you're trying to make excuses for why you don't believe in it.

> considering the rate of suicides among transsexuals who have undergone gender reassignment is considerably higher than that among the general population

Interesting how you ignored the elephant in the room with this line. You do know that one contributing factor to the high suicide rates is prejudice, right? You are aware that this is the reason why therapy is required prior to any hormones being prescribed or any surgeries being conducted, right? Don't paint your view of the world and all of these concepts based on what a few retards say on the Internet. Tumblr is most likely just special snowflakes who aren't even experiencing gender dysphoria or those who hop onto a bandwagon so they can feel more secure.

Taking someone to some conservative quack, as previously mentioned in this thread, where they are diagnosed as having a much more serious mental disorder like schizophrenia isn't going to help shit.


>>
Anonymous 17/01/28(Sat)00:38 No. 16443 ID: 8b2816

>>16441
>You do know that one contributing factor to the high suicide rates is prejudice, right?
The world is what it is. A treatment has to work in reality to be effective, not hope that reality will change to accommodate it. Saying "gender reassignment is only unsuccessful because people are prejudiced" is like saying "incineration would work wonders against AIDS if only people were fire-proof".


>>
Anonymous 17/02/01(Wed)06:53 No. 16445 ID: 57a468

>>16443
Noticed how I said it was only one factor. You appeared to have missed this part. Also, a society that doesn't change is due to extinction. One cannot keep things the way they are if life moves forward not backward. Why do you think there is so much controversy concerning Trump's administration?

This still doesn't change the fact you're ignoring the basis of science by saying shit like the DSM is unreliable or that there should be a better treatment without providing hard evidence to support such statements.


>>
Anonymous 17/02/01(Wed)08:29 No. 16446 ID: ef54e2

>>16445
>Noticed how I said it was only one factor. You appeared to have missed this part.
You only named one factor, so I only responded to one factor.

>Also, a society that doesn't change is due to extinction.
Society changes. There's no avoiding that. That doesn't mean it will change in a particular direction.

But, for the sake of argument let's suppose that in 100 years there is no progress of any kind in gender dysmorphia treatments and transgenders are universally accepted as being of the gender they purport to be, to the point that women have no dating preference between men and transsexual men, beyond reproductive capability. In other words, the situation is the same as today, only with total acceptance. Furthermore, this acceptance has caused transgender people to be statistically indistinguishable from the general population in pretty much all ways.

This hypothetical future doesn't change the fact that today the treatment is unsuccessful in many cases and that it's worthwhile to research new forms of treatment. If you disagree with this then I'm sorry, but the one who's resistant to change and progress is you.

>you're ignoring the basis of science by saying [...] that there should be a better treatment without providing hard evidence
I don't quite follow. I need to provide evidence for the statement "there should be a better treatment"? It's an opinion. Are you saying you do not believe I hold that opinion, or are you saying that you disagree with that opinion? Tough titty either way.


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Anonymous 17/03/18(Sat)22:31 No. 16471 ID: fc6638

>>16414
I'd say while there are a multitude of personal reasons SJW's take this shit to the levels that they do, the answer you are looking for could be simplistically boiled down to one word: ennui.

These people are to the core bored. It may arise from not being quite creative enough to make a purpose for themselves or they cannot fathom some way for them to be "interesting". Either way the way these people have seen themselves for years is as a uniform, pre fab part of modern america. No unique experiences, not enough creative wherewithal to express something unique and no unique "backstory" as some would say.

So, in lieu of any of this they instead experience ennui. In the grips of this ennui, there is no purpose to anything that you do, there is no reason you will be remembered, there is no way to be remarkable. S, in order to fulfill the need for these feelings they cling to a cultural trope that appeals to them: being persecuted. Being a part of a minority that is persecuted is a wet dream of these people, and the aspiration is to be remembered much like MLK. This gives them the "purpose" of fighting persecution, real and imagined. It gives them a sense of belonging and community with other like minded people. And finally, it gives them, in their mind, a path towards being remembered heroically.

long story short. the SJW is a product of the success of modern society with respect to achieving homogeneity and quality of life. They are also the product of that society lacking a clear sense of purposeful direction.



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