>I think most people agree that a 12 gauge shotgun with low recoil 00 buckshot is ideal.

I would think that a shotgun would be more cumbersome than a pistol to take out/aim at a target, especially when the target takes you by surprise.

Is there any pistol in particular that you would consider to be an acceptable alternative for the context of a life-threatening home invasion (something that's really easy/fast to grab and fire)? Or would you still go with a 12 gauge for it's lack of needing to be perfectly aimed to be effective?

Great guide, by the way.

I would still go with a shotgun for it's ease of use in a high stress situation. A short barrel would be best for handling indoors. Shorter the better I would say but a 18.5" barrel is perfectly manageable indoors. Another consideration is the penetration of walls. With a shotgun you can scale the load for your needs. Obviously it's very unsafe to fire any firearm indoors but with a low recoil load you're less likely to harm anybody beyond your target. You might load a smaller shot (not birdshot) shell for the first and a low recoil buckshot for a follow up if necessary. Because of where I live there's almost no danger of harming others in just about any direction so I keep my mag tube loaded with Winchester 2 3/4" Super X low recoil 00.

>>3004

I agree. I can't imagine anyone who would be standing after taking a hit from 00 buck. Mine is loaded with Federal low recoil 00.

For CC purposes, I'd have to lean for the FN Five-seveN. The ammo weighs about half as much as a 9mm Parabellum, and even less recoil. Plus, 5.7mm bullets have massive armor piercing. For home defense, nothing is better than a Remington 870 loaded with 00 buck, or small slugs, if you don't want to damage your home. Also, you forgot to put in the fact that states the gun isn't completely safe, even with the saftey is on. Safties are mechianical devices. Mechiancal devices can fail.

>>3026
Because 5-7s are well known for their high stopping power against targets that are going to kill/mug you...

Seriously, the whole point of the 5-7 is that it sacrifices stopping power for range, penetration and low recoil. If someone is about to attack you, you want to stop 'em quickly, not have to worry about getting a perfectly aimed shot, and range and penetration aren't important - in fact they are bad since it increases the risk of accidently killing an innocent (and landing you in the shit).

I'd much rather have a small 9mm than the 5-7, although if you have a large frame a .45 would be even better.

On a related note, what does /w/ think of the micro-deagel (pic related)? I've heard mixed views about it - anyone here fired one? I haven't unfortunately, but it certainly looks awesome, and it checks all the boxes for good stopping power and light weight. Only thing that made me 'WTF?' was the trigger guard - it connects to the muzzle lol.

>>3037
Shit forgot pic, here's the Micro Desert Eagle (.380):

>>3037
Well, the Five-SeveN AP ball cartridge can penetrate a Kevlar vest at 30 yards, and still carry enough power to knock down an average sized man. The micro deagle is chambered in .380, which is used in most "ultra-compact" semiautomatic handguns, making it not that different compared to others.

>>3040 It's just a super fast, super overpriced .22. The 55gr 5.7x28 barely out performs the 60gr .22lr which is something like 1/40th the price. Either way, you're not going to be "knocking" anyone down unless they're made out of paper.

>>3040
A mugger isn't exactly gonna be wearing a kevlar vest is he?

Don't get me wrong, the 5-7 is great if you need a pistol with great range and penetration, but for defensive purposes you need a medium to large calibre weapon with plenty of stopping power - range and penetration aren't really important for self defence - as I said before too much of the aforementioned can be a bad thing for defence - with a 5-7 there's a high chance of overpenetrating and killing a random passer-by.

Really the 5-7 is only really needed when you need a pistol with armour piercing capabilities, or if range is important - it would be a good sidearm to a sniper rifle, for example. Obviously it would also be a good sidearm to the P90 as they use the same ammo.

>>3044

That's the sad thing. It's amazingly simple for any street thug to get a kevlar vest these days. I've seen lots of big gangs wearing these things openly. It's just the way things are these days. It's also possible to get 75gr 5.7mm rounds, "Maxi-Powers" or something like that.

You can't buy 5.7x28 FMJ. It's restricted what with the cops being terrified of being shot with tiny steel penetrators. All of the FN 5.7 rounds are restricted to police and military or Class III dealers except for the V-max plastic tipped hollow points and the lead free hollow points. The Five-seven and P90 simply are silly guns for a civilian to own. The ammunition is more expensive than .223 and the performance is about on par with .22WMR

>>3052 Anyone can buy a kevlar vest. Would you like quarter inch steel trauma plates with that?

Also, here, have a look at what FN sells. http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?pageNum=1&tabId=3&categoryId=17476&categoryString=653***691*** .

Sure you can reload the brass and use 75 grain .223 bullets but guess what will likely happen? Kaboom and a broken thousand dollar .22 handgun.

Now can we stop shitting up the sticky?

My two favorites for concealed carry are the FN Five seveN and the H&K P7. Of course, both these are somewhat pricey...

A ood alternative imo is a Taurus 38 spc titanium revolver.

i kinda like the m1911a1 as its nice looking , and powerful , accurate.. what do you guys think about this gun and self defense or any thing else ?

>>3184
Yeah, the M1911 is a great weapon for home defense, the .45 ACP round providing significantly higher stopping power than rounds such as the 9mm*19 parabellum. It's poor range and penetration aren't really a problem either as they reduce the risk to neighbours etc.

As a CCW, it depends what sort of frame you have - for a large-framed person an M1911 would be a great CCW but for smaller people it may be too bulky, in which case I'd recommend a small 9mm. Most people agree than a single-action with no external safety is best for CC, as all you have to do is bring the gun up and cock it and it's ready to fire - no fiddling with complex safeties. The M1911 is great for CC in this respect as it's single action.

I like how a lot of people on this board talk about guns but they have no idea.

Not you OP.

>>3232

i'd have to disagree with you on the point of .45 cal > 9mm and on preferred action.

9mm defensive loads, specifically +p hollowpoints are nothing to scoff at, particularly with the extended magazine capacity over .45 ammunition. It's also cheaper than .45 to allow you more time at the range.

secondly, da/sa would be far superior for cc, as you can carry it with a round in the chamber with the hammer decocked and safety off, where the gun would be reasonably safe, and should need arise, all you'd need to do is aim and pull the trigger to actuate the hammer.

http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=13014&return=Y

I was thinking about making this my first firearm (I intend on using it at the range as a hobby, not home defense etc.) Thoughts?

Also stainless steel vs blued, I keep reading that ss is lame.

>>3617
What do you read about the SS version being lame? Rugers are very reliable, it has a hammer, a safety/decocker, a place to mount a lazer, and left or right handed shooters can eject the mag.
Cons, it may be a bit awkward if you don't have large hands. Probably to big for conceal carry (not your issue) Mag release is out of my reach and I wear medium size gloves.
I'm basing most of this on a p89 which I've shot.

>>3618

its all an opinion, about the ss vs blued, like me i prefer a blued any gun over a ss one. it looks more "gunish" to me, and there is something about black that i have a fetish for. and plus, a blued can go the color of a ss anytime you want with some proper sand paper lol.

But i do agree that rugers and amazing, i have huge hands, i love my p90 and p345. If i didnt have my p220, i would shoot them even more. Can you tell i like .45?

>>3631
>it looks more "gunish" to me
>blued can go the color of a ss anytime you want with some proper sand paper lol.
Don't buy a gun if this is the way you think.

>>3639
Agreed.

>>3788
I think I ran him off...

HMM, The Vertical grip in OP seems like it was meant for stubby arms.

>>4286 It's all about preference. Without it I shoot with my left hand on the magwell.

There is no such thing as stopping power when talking about handguns. Even a .50AE doesn't possess enough kinetic energy to physically knock a man off his feet. Any attacking target will not be stopped simply by gun fire unless you damage the lungs or the heart. By having a gun with low recoil it allows you to place more aimed shots into you're target before you lose your sight picture which increases the chances of puncturing both lungs and/or heart effectively stopping your target. Shotguns are perfect for home defence especially something like the Mossberg 500A cruiser. Greatly reduced chance of collateral damage, a frighting sound indoors, and 5 shots in case you need more than one.

>>4522
not necessarily true. while the use of a shotgun does insure much more force into the target, it has been proven with untrained shooters that using a shotgun is not nearly as effective as a handgun due to sighting issues. also, if the shotgun is pump action, the chances of getting more than maybe two shots off depend on the situation. unless you have one that can be shotcocked.

>>4607


Saiga 12 for home defense. What Now?

>>4708
or any other semi auto 12 gauge out there :|. You just need to test ammo so that you know what you use will cycle it completely when the time comes. If low recoil 00 buckshot doesn't cycle then you have a problem because that's what you want to use indoors to minimize the threat of hurting or killing someone else.

I like to think that when I move to NH where I can open carry, I will get an M9 because this is what I was trained on in the Navy and it's the only thing I'm remotely familiar with so far.

Is this a good idea? Y/n

>>4927
The M9 is decent, but I'm personally biased against a 9mm for CC. If you do want a 9mm, then the M9 is a decent choice. I've shot one, and my brother owns one. For the price, it's a damn fine gun.

If you can afford to, go to a range and rent yourself a Glock 22 or 21 (in b4 "Glock sux"), so you at least have experience with other pistols. If you like either one, save up for it, then just make sure local laws allow you to CC something like a Glock. IMO, the 22 is a good range/defense gun, and the 21 is great for defense. 13 rounds of .45 ACP, +1 in the chamber, DA fire, no safety to monkey with (unless you count the trigger safety, which I don't), and it comes from the factory with a mounting rail, so you can put on a laser, flashlight, or a combo (can't remember where, but I recall seeing a flashlight/laser combo designed specifically for handguns) if you want to.

If you're going to open carry, then the M9 is a solid choice.

If you decide to go CC, then grab something more lightweight, GLOCK, XD and so on. If you get something too heavy you might find yourself starting to leave it at home when you go out places, which defeats the purpose of having the license in the first place.

Compared to polymer framed guns, the M9 is very heavy. But if you're comfortable with carrying it around all the time, more power to you.

>>5088
.45 is fine if you're a lard-arsed American who has the 'build' to carry the damn pistol, but for the rest of us a 9mm or similar is fine for CC.

>>5229
What 9mm? Most are as big or double stacked which makes them harder to conceal than a 1911.
Personally I find the LCP to be a good cc gun for warm weather. I'm thin built and in the summer I can drop it in the front pocket of my pants (or shorts if I wore them) and you would have a hard time spotting it. Its as thick and big as my bifold wallet and unlike other guns, which you will feel digging into you, the LCP is so small and light you may forget you have it at times. Also unlike other guns you'll never go anywhere without it because its never a hindrance. Inb4 .380 is shit, far better to have something than to have left home with nothing.
I will say there are a few cons with the LCP. Poor sights (will try improving them), chamber not fully supported, hard to eject unfired rounds with mag in... (Still better than the keltec.) I'd like to try the Taurus TCP and the Kahr PM380 in the future but they're a bit pricier I think.
Obviously I dont carry it in the winter. I sometimes carry a stainless Ruger Vaquero in .45LC if weight isn't a concern.

Hi. Get away from the crowd when you can. Keep yourself to yourself, if only for a few hours daily.
I am from Iraq and , too, and now am writing in English, please tell me right I wrote the following sentence: "Visited near copenhagen airport, it carefully provides the largest credit in scandinavia and a t430credit of race and applicable works largely only as an it university and a frustrated railway."

Waiting for a reply ;), Alfonso.

>>5229
>> insinuating you need to be fat to conceal a single-stack .45, or even a double-stack.

Wrong, wrong, so very fucking wrong. Cases in point: Myself, Graywilde, my uncle Rob, thousands of other people.

There are plenty of .45 models out there that are actually smaller than comparable 9mm handguns, like my CC gun, the Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry II. 8 rounds of whatever .45 round I feel like using, damn reliable, and accurate enough that a competent shooter won't waste his rounds. The built-in laser-grips are just icing on the cake for me.

>>5229
Take a look at the Kahr .45ACPs. Anyone could conceal one of those.

>>5311
My point exactly, Graywilde.

Just out of curiosity, how viable do you think a double-barreled, pump-action shotgun would be for home defense? One of my friends just finished making his 3rd model, and I'm thinking of buying it from him, if just for the novelty of saying I own one of the damn things.

And in case you're wondering, it's nothing like the Remington 1740 that one guy made a while back. This monster is entirely hand-crafted, all-original. The only logo you'll find even close to this gun is whatever's on the ammo I'm using.

<3 home gunsmiths.

>>5313

Howdy, Sarge :D

>>5436
'Sup man?

Pop into 7's IRC sometime so I can talk with ya. I'm taking a bit of a vacation from 99, aside from checking your thread every few days.

>>5309
Thank you sir.
My father owns a Stainless Gov't issue 1911.
I Found that it can fit in the inner coat pocket of a biker jacket rather easily.
Also I have a Colt King Cobra in .357, that however would be a problem to conceal. >:D

>>5505
>Stainless Gov't issue 1911
Government "Model".

>>5550
Thanks in ernest for correcting my error.
It does have delta hand grips though so it's nice.
The cobra has an 8"-9" barrel so carrying that thing would be quite cumbersome.

Would anyone on /w/ happen to ave any experience with the Mateba Model 6 Unica? I cae across it online on day, and was curious if any of you were familiar with it.

I have a CZ P01. It is a small 9mm handgun that was my first gun purchase. I did months of research and trying out guns before I decided to invest in the P01, and I am very happy with what I did. Check it out!

I've been wanting to plink around with a pistola, what do you guys think about the Ruger Charger? Its a .22 so you can buy plenty of ammo cheap and you can upgrade the magazine to hold 30 rounds, plus with the gun rail you can equip a variety of sights.

>>4522
Because you've been shot in the chest and thighs, repeatedly, by various pistols.

>>7418
it's more like a short barreled plinking rifle, just made like a pistol to get around ATF bullshit.

BTW the kneecaps are the most painful place to get shot So if you don't want to shoot to kill but tell them you mean biz then you do that exactly not that you would know anything about that.

>>8400
>>8409
>>8410
I just thought I'd let you know that you are an absolute retard.

>>7418
You can get 50 round magazines. No lies.

>>7418
I have a charger and its loads of fun for plinking. Pretty dam accurate with a 4x scope too. I dont know how ruger got em bast the ATF though. With the bipod you basicaly have a forward grip which is illegal on pisols and the hand grip on the back is so big you can actually get a cheek weld on it.

>>8587
A forward grip isn't illegal. Maybe a pistol grip. And a cheek weld doesn't equal shoulder contact. Stupid laws anyway.

>>3001
you should add a metal frame vs. polymer frame pistol as a consideration, too. metal frames have changed very little since the 1970s. only a few manufacturers still make metal framed pistols. modern pistols are almost unanimously polymer.

>only a few manufacturers still make metal framed pistols

Funny I'm pretty sure there are a lot of metal framed pistols being designed and produced.

>>9088

Yes, there is a shit load of companies that make the 1911, including some modern versions.