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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/17(Tue)20:26 No. 16367
16367

File 134254959998.jpg - (33.17KB , 508x363 , yoga.jpg )

Well i was thinking aren't Yoga and all other meditations ultimately rituals? I mean Yoga and meditation require us to repeat certain patterns or processes in order to achieve a higher(?) state. Isn't that what a ritual is? Isn't yoga then a ritualistic dance? I mean higher state ultimately means that u are able to love more naturally and when loving everyone becomes totally natural it is the highest form of human existence. Has yoga ever aided anyone love better? You may say that it teaches u discipline, but if u think about it slaves are disciplined too(corporate world slave to the money an obvious example). What is the proof that the power surge u feel from yoga isn't demonic? No yoga master i've ever seen can be considered a higher being whereas true lovers are. My take is Yoga is ultimately a ritual.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/17(Tue)20:29 No. 16368
16368

File 134254975163.jpg - (11.38KB , 403x328 , john_travolta_has_a_bad_hairday.jpg )

>>16367

What the fuck am I reading.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/17(Tue)20:40 No. 16370
16370

File 134255042620.jpg - (107.92KB , 500x333 , jim.jpg )

>>16369

Defending a ritual through lust mfw.


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/17(Tue)20:46 No. 16371

Tin Foil Enthusiasts, nuff said.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/17(Tue)22:04 No. 16374

Study a bit of anthropology. There's a LOT of things that are rituals.


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/17(Tue)22:37 No. 16376

>>16374

well with anthropology u can describe or reach a physical or mental state, not spiritual.


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)18:54 No. 16387

>>16376

A spiritual state IS a mental state, just like a banana IS a fruit.

Bathing or showering is a ritual. Going to see a movie is a ritual. There are lots of things you do every day that are rituals. And with the right approach and mindset, many of them can achieve effects identical to those rituals one might describe as mystical or "spiritual".


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)21:17 No. 16388

>>16387

nope, spiritual state is not a mental state. It is when the brain is in control of your soul(spirit), something that just cant be done any other way than giving up on vices and living in virtue. Physical exercises can't help you do that. With yoga your body at max your body/brain can reach a required state, give you a sense of bodily peace but that peace is in no way spiritual. Spirituality on the other hand requires giving up the bodily needs(such as lust, exercise etc). I mean if you ditch a friend, parents, your lover just because u need to exercise/yoga/meditate you have fallen to a lower state, you cant say that just cause you meditated instead you've become higher.


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)21:24 No. 16389

>>16388
>the brain is in control

That's a mental state.


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)21:33 No. 16390

>>16387

The thing is soul and body(including the brain) are separate even if the soul resides within the body. Now your body(more importantly brain) can either be controlled by external factors and bodily functions or the brain and body can be controlled by your soul. Now spirituality = brain and body being controlled by the soul. Soul can be ignored by the brain, it can't be controlled by it. Meditation is like trying to control your soul through your brain/body which is just an illusion(an egoistic illusion). Ego is your brain's consciousness. What most people consider satisfaction or happiness is the ego's satisfaction/brain's happiness or in other word's sensory satisfaction. Soul's happiness = bliss, soul's satisfaction = peace. Hence, money can surely buy you happiness but money can't buy you bliss. Spirituality can be achieved only through virtues the only thing meditation has going for it is the virtue of diligence to reach the soul. But helping a homeless man, buying him a blanket, chatting with him to give him company is much greater than this diligence/ritual even though it may only require a second of your time. Well helping that homeless man because u want to reach a higher state would again be a ritual, it should come from your heart, your empathy, your love, because your conscience says so. So these rituals are ultimately a wastage of time compared to following your heart and living in true love. This is why you can sense that every innocent(at heart) person is higher than the best meditation master in the world. The meditator is just fulfilling a formality, innocent one is following his conscience. Hence, the difference.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)21:38 No. 16391

>>16388

State is spiritual when soul is the cause. Something that can't be done through your brain controlling the body or your brain concentrating. Virtue is the only way.


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)21:47 No. 16392

>>16388

Everyone knows within them(within their soul even their body) what true love and God are(come on, even an atheist knows for sure within himself what the concept of a God is). The difference is who has ignored this knowledge and who has followed them. He who has followed God and love more is a higher being than the one who has followed them less or perhaps never. Follow your knowledge of true love and God, you'll find ascension. Rituals are ultimately demonic.
Have you ever heard of true love ritual or God ritual?


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)22:12 No. 16393

>>16392
>Rituals are ultimately demonic. Have you ever heard of true love ritual or God ritual?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=church


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)22:15 No. 16394
16394

File 134264255271.jpg - (27.17KB , 379x400 , match2-surprised-face.jpg )

>>16390

my mind is full of fuck


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)22:16 No. 16395

>>16390
>The thing is soul and body(including the brain) are separate

This is the biggest misconception since the idea that matter and energy are two different things. And it's just as hard to accept that it is a misconception.


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)22:18 No. 16396

>>16393

I lol'd.
Fuck the church, follow the bible.


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)22:20 No. 16397

>>16396

Which one?


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)22:22 No. 16398

>>16395

>This is the biggest misconception since the idea that matter and energy are two different things.

A conclusion reached through the brain.
All i know from experience is brain can be one with the soul or ignore it and have a separate existence. So mind, soul and body can be one but can be separate too. Energy or matter are again what brain observes.


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)22:38 No. 16399
16399

File 134264388014.jpg - (11.98KB , 380x304 , bush1.jpg )

>>16397

what do u mean by which one? Which church?

Well don't completely ignore the church, the independent thinking church preachers maybe living through the soul, they have some great wisdom to share. Bible is the best collection of wisdom out there. Even if u ignore the stories, follow their teachings.

On a side note the KJ version of bible is written as a poem if u will. Don't take it literally. Try to see through the metaphoric symbolization. Always ask for God's guidance while reading the bible.

The fastest way to reach God is asking God to help u reach him. Its easy, just ask. You'll see your delusions slowly vanishing, God knows the smoothest/most comfortable way for you to end your delusions. No one can do that better than you and Him as a team.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)22:51 No. 16400

>>16395

Simplest example of mind and soul being separate is when you hit someone because they made u angry. Your Soul doesn't want to hit anyone. As soon as you forgive that person, your brain has gone one step closer to being controlled by the soul. You've been virtuous, soul has taken over.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)22:55 No. 16401

>>16399

Which Bible? Of which faith? With or without the Apocrypha? Et cetera.

And why the Bible? What makes it, as a book, any more able to convey spiritual truths than any other book written by man?


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)22:58 No. 16402

>>16400

Here's a question to you. Do you think the thing you call a "mind" is a singular entity?


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)23:03 No. 16403

>>16401

Christian bible. Well i shared that because i feel the greatest bliss when i read it. There is something that sooths the soul about it. I've just started reading it, only read Genesis and Exodus but i know for sure it gives bliss. I can only answer what after i've read it fully. Two parts just wont do. But my experience states so.

I've read the Bhagavad Gita, but didnt feel the same bliss though the knowledge can be practical.

Pray to God to help u(and others)reach him, nothing can be more blissful. You'll find the way, have patience.


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)23:13 No. 16404

Well i understand mind as brain and bodily intelligence and the processes leading this intelligence to action.
Now that u say that maybe when soul takes over the brain can be called mind too. Using brain would have been clearer. I guess i'll have to look into what mind means. English isn't my first language. I just reached that conclusion because people use the words mind and soul separately.


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)23:17 No. 16405

>>16403

Okay, which version of the Christian Bible? And again, with or without the Apocrypha?

And is a feeling of bliss the only defining trait of a spiritually enriching experience?


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)23:26 No. 16406

>>16405

Well bliss is one of the traits. Love is the greatest. When u love someone with mind, body and soul it is the greatest human experience.

Since there is no give or take in love, you loving someone = receiving someone's love. So greatest human existence is when u love everyone(same as receiving everyone's love). This is what i've learnt recently and this is what my aim is and everyone's aim should be.

My take is fastest way to enlightenment is following true love, bliss and peace will be the guaranteed by-products.


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)23:29 No. 16407

>>16405

Following true love at every moment also encompasses following every other virtue at every moment. Love is the greatest virtue. You dont need to worry about other virtues if loving is the only thing that matters to you. You'll do them naturally.


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)23:30 No. 16408

>>16406

And does every single passage you read give you this feeling of bliss?


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)23:37 No. 16409

>>16405
Oh missed the other question. Well i've just started looking into the bible, didn't even know what Apocrypha meant.

I've read this,
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/

Only because i saw on youtube that King James bible was the best version, he showed an anomaly between the King James and later versions. And i trusted the guy. I just read that link because i searched King James bible on google and that site's interface suited me the most lol.

Well you've told me what Apocrypha is after i've read the two parts. Synchronisity much? Maybe even divine intervention. Who knows. Only time will tell.

But there is bliss in the bible, that i know.


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)23:40 No. 16410

>>16408

Well i hadn't even observed the bliss until i was a bit faroff into Genesis. Then while reading the Exodus i realised that the book was giving me bliss, thats when reading every verse became blissful too.


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)23:44 No. 16411

>>16409
>on youtube ... And i trusted the guy.

Don't do that. Read the different versions and compare them yourself. Decide for yourself. Read the Torah and the Qur'an too.


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/18(Wed)23:49 No. 16412

>>16411

Well i can observe synchronisity and have given u an example of one synchronous event, that is what i'm relying upon.

And Quran states that Muslims>others so it is a straight no no. Bible says christians are safer not superior. Don't know what Torah is. Have experienced Jesus for 3-4 seconds once as a child(and chickened out). So thats why the bible.


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/19(Thu)00:02 No. 16413

>>16411

Well i will look into other books, once i've finished the bible.


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/19(Thu)00:47 No. 16414

>>16412
>And Quran states that Muslims>others so it is a straight no no.

It's not a disease. Reading ideas you disagree with will not give you AIDS. But it's important if you're going to read one Abrahamic book to read them all, to know how they relate to each other.

>>16413

I recommend reading them at the same time. Especially the different Bible versions. It'll help you relate them to each other.


You're in a very dangerous position, you see. You're reading a book with many good ideas in it, but there does not exist a book with 100% good ideas. That feeling of bliss is double-edged, because it makes you more likely to accept a bad idea tucked between two good ideas without even thinking about it.

Remember to chew your ideas before you swallow them.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/19(Thu)01:02 No. 16415

>>16414

>feeling of bliss is double-edged

That is true. Will look into others as well.
But i do have a hunch(thats again experience) Bible is the best. Hence i read that first and will compare others to it.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/21(Sat)11:40 No. 16424

>>16390


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/23(Mon)22:32 No. 16435

>>16367
You sir are a retard, its a work out....


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/24(Tue)07:33 No. 16436

>>16435

Point was these things are used to open chakras, gain greater wisdom and what not. All these things can be done/obtained simply by living in true love(well i'll repeat again if u follow your 'love' for chakras etc its ritualistic). If it is used as a workout, ok, if for ascension, its stupid. Meditation has nothing to do with ascension. Just the delusion of ascension.

Ascension is a free gift of love. But if u 'love' with the aim of ascension it isn't love.

Meditation for wisdom is a wastage of time! Wisdom comes naturally to he who loves.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/24(Tue)07:39 No. 16437

>>16436

It may be possible that meditational workout is required for you to follow love. But in most cases knowledge of meditation is pointless. Those people are only wasting their and everyone elses time.

Ascension can't be bought. So paying a meditation teacher(even if its paying attention) for ascension is a straight no no.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/24(Tue)18:05 No. 16439

>>16436
>Meditation for wisdom is a wastage of time
How so?
The reason I ask is because meditation has been used to attain deep wisdom and enlightenment for thousands of years, so I'd like to know why you think all those years have been wasted.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/24(Tue)18:13 No. 16440

>>16436

Wisdom comes naturally to he who thinks. He who does not think is incapable of even recognizing what wisdom is, for he has shunned it.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/24(Tue)22:24 No. 16443

>>16440

Well love takes care of every requirement. Don't you feel a sense of fulfillment of responsibility towards the one you love? Wouldn't this fulfillment of responsibility require you to think? You see love is the greatest virtue, that encompasses the fulfillment of every other virtue within it.

>>16439

Well what you need to understand is most of the ancient spiritual knowledge may have become pointless now. The times/the age has changed.

Important note: I am about to use Christianity as an argument, please try and kill all prejudices you have against it in your mind. Prejudices only kill wisdom(even collection of knowledge). For a moment think of Christianity as if you have heard about it for the first time.

The times changed when Jesus died on the cross(for your sins). What that means is now you no longer need to cancel out your bad karma. All you need is to say no to the sins and promise you wont repeat them(repent) and you will ascend.
Most ancient knowledge(Gita/teachings of Thoth) are all about cancelling out your bad karma. So to achieve a mental state before Christ you may have to do all these meditational stuff to control your mind etc (and hence their discovery. Not in this age)! In this Age, many of the previous formalities/techniques required only to kill bad karma are redundant! So meditate only if it is required by you to fulfill your responsibilities towards love(love should be the only priority). If it gets in the way of love, reject it. In most cases meditational knowledge will prove out to be pointless for love, hence doing it as a guarantee for ascension is a wastage of time now! Many responsibilties have been cancelled out for you.

A lot of these Ancient techniques will just count as being egoistic today. Meditational techniques may have been required in BC times to cancel the sins against your body to ascend. Not anymore. If u reach the state of true love the meditational benefits like chakras will come to you for free, the cancellation techniques are no longer a requirement, repentance is(which takes less than a second if done truly with love). U loving someone truly will guarantee your discovery of the benefits of repentance. Follow the love in your heart truly, everything else will follow.

Don't waste times on formalities.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/24(Tue)23:40 No. 16444

>>16443
Yes, but why is meditation a waste of time in the pursuit of wisdom?
I'm sorry if you attempted to answer this with your post, but I was looking for a simpler answer. It seems like you went on about outdated meditation techniques (which are- as "outdated" implies- not efficient anymore). This tells me that there are meditative processes which aren't desirable, but it doesn't explain how meditation as a whole is a waste of time if wisdom is your goal. Maybe the Christianity example confused me as to your message? The way I see it is that enlightenment can only be achieved when one thinks about a concept in full.

I should also probably explain that I'm not quite grasping your use of the word ascension. Are you using it in terms of understanding one's self or religious fervor?


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/25(Wed)03:47 No. 16446

>>16444

Every meditation technique is irrelevant now. All these benefits can be obtained directly by love. If u love a girl, dont you think about her all the time?(thats concentration). Don't you understand and are able to see within the one's you love?(third eye chakra?).

Understanding God is what follows when you have fully actualized yourself. If you bypass all the intermediate techniques to directly understand and love God, knowledge of self comes as a by-product.

Christianity is necessary now because well the Christ Age is what we're living in. Christ's life and His sacrifice has catalysed most things for you. Due to this catalysis, benefits of every meditation technique will come to you if you choose to repent to him instead of doing that on your own(saves you a lot of time and you can enjoy your existence instead of working towards it.)

By ascension i mean reaching the higher state of your existence. Ultimate existence for a human is when u love every human who walks the face of the earth and loving God truly.

Every ounce of wisdom will come to you if you choose to love instead of collecting knowledge. Collection per se has become irrelevant. Due to the catalysis whatever you would have needed to collect otherwise is simply handed to you if you go to the One who made the required sacrifice for you. Why reject the cataclysm? you'll only be wasting yours and everyone else's time if you do that.

Read these posts, perhaps the doubts you may still have are answered there.

>>16388
>>16390
>>16391
>>16392
>>16495

Read also the posts of the guy i was addressing. Will give you a smoother understanding.


You are nothing compared to God. Why waste time on yourself? Let God be your guide, He will teach you what's required by you to understand yourself and the rest of the world.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/25(Wed)03:50 No. 16447

>>16446

I'm here to answer whatever doubts you may still have. But if you understand that you know God within yourself, why depend on me? Go directly to Him.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/25(Wed)04:47 No. 16449

>>16443

Love may help you choose among possibilities to decide what Right Action is, but it will never be able to give you a complete understanding of what those possibilities are in the first place. This comes only from observation and rational cogitation.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/25(Wed)05:32 No. 16450

>>16446
I understand what your aim is now. That's not really the philosophy I'd like to subscribe to, I'm sorry to say. I think that love of humanity does not have to be mutual to love of a god, but we all have our different views on the way the universe works so meh.


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/25(Wed)11:20 No. 16451

>>16449

>it will never be able to give you a complete understanding of what those possibilities are in the first place.

No it will. Rational thinking and observation will be a guarantee in love. Its just that there is no proof of such things in love before experience. The experience is the proof. Hence it requires patience and faith on your part.

Going for an experience even after a lack of proof and evidence is what faith is.

God is the truth. You cannot love humanity without being grateful to its creator, love of humanity and love of God can never be exclusive.

Experience of God is the proof of God. Faith is the only way to obtain the proof.

When i say the words one true God, why does an understanding of these words crop up in your head and heart? You are born with the understanding of God, you can deny it but cannot escape it.
There is no escaping the truth only denial or ignorance.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/25(Wed)11:21 No. 16452

>>16449

Don't look for the proof of God outside you, it is within you, within is the only place you can find it.


>>
Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/25(Wed)19:10 No. 16453

>>16451
>Rational thinking and observation will be a guarantee in love.

I refer you to: >He who does not think is incapable of even recognizing what wisdom is, for he has shunned it.

I think you've given quite enough input to show this board that you have shunned rational thought and embraced madness. People like you are the reason people like them think that rational sanity and loving a deity are mutually incompatible.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/25(Wed)19:33 No. 16454

>>16453

>He who does not think is incapable of even recognizing what wisdom is, for he has shunned it.

Heart is capable of thinking too, brain should think under the heart.

Search heart and body intelligence on the internet. The heart and the body have intelligence exclusively their own, though it hasn't been made popular.

If you think that brain is the sole unit of your body that has intelligence, what are you relying on? What your schools have taught you? Do you think the education system is reliable? Isn't controlling the education system the easiest way to control the masses by those who wish to control you?

Deleting information from the society is so easy if you slowly and systematically destroy information every generation. If that is done there will be a generation, where no records exist about a particular piece of information. As such you are totally on your own.

See for yourself if you can exclusively think with your heart.

People say art is at its best when it is created through mind, body and soul. This is a 'popular' proof for you that body and mind and soul are three different types of intelligence. Why use those three words, why not just say art should be made through the mind?

Heart is the fastest path to wisdom, that is the point i'm trying to make. If you follow your heart, development of the brain will follow.

Don't believe in a deity if u don't want to, but if you choose to follow the path towards loving every human being in existence at some point you will find the deity, no escaping it. That is my only claim with regards to the deity.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/25(Wed)19:58 No. 16455

>>16453

>People like you are the reason people like them think that rational sanity and loving a deity are mutually incompatible.

No, the fear of following the heart is what makes people think rational sanity and loving a deity are incompatible. Haven't you seen smart guys doing illogical things for the girls they love? Do u think they suddenly became stupid. No, that is the heart's intelligence taking over. If you have thought only through the brain all your life, you'll not see the logic/wisdom in that.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/25(Wed)20:28 No. 16456

>>16453

On a personal note, why do u think i am mad?

From the threads point of view, how can you claim that everyone on the board disagrees with me? The >>16394 guy and the >>16387 guy have seen something they found useful in what i've said, there's no denying it. Don't say the whole board thinks this is useless, the proof is right in front of you.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/25(Wed)20:31 No. 16457

>>16455
What does the process of following the heart involve?
I'd appreciate an answer without campy morals, if it's not too much trouble. I'm sorry to say that while your philosophy is commendable, the way you present it is in the fashion of a generic anime or a Saturday morning cartoon. Possibly both. Would it be hindering to present your ideas in a more informal manner?

You see, it's things like
>that is the heart's intelligence taking over
Which destroy your credibility. The justification you provide is
>Haven't you seen smart guys doing illogical things for the girls they love?
Which is just silly. We are programmed to forgo logic in the presence of a potential mate because our bodies are designed to give procreation precedence over pretty much everything except for self-preservation. I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just that your method of communication could use some work. I'm willing to work with you to help you explain it without having you come across as some religious nut.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/25(Wed)22:11 No. 16458

What does the process of following the heart involve?

Concentrate on and follow your conscience/empathy. Well if you had ever been in love(its that word again), the shifting between the heart and brain'd have been natural.
Fastest way to think with your heart is to fall in love or have a child :P. Else follow your conscience.

>the way you present it is in the fashion of a generic anime or a Saturday morning cartoon.

I lol'd. Well, the heart speaks in symbols/poetry(o love you are like like a blooming flower on a sprying sunset etc). XD Hence it being the center for producing art. Well i've said before English isn't my first language. Maybe the way i compose sentences is unusual/weird.

I get what the problem is now. Most of what i've said appeals only to the heart and not the brain. Well if you have never experienced the heart, everyone has at least experienced a conscience. Follow the conscience (even if only as a side project). You'll learn new things, gain a greater understanding.

I can tell you for sure that following the conscience has hidden benefits. People study body language and what not to know another person. If you have experience of following your conscience, you'll be able to see every second the other person fails his conscience. Fastest way to decipher and judge a man.

Well perhaps this personal observation/pattern that i've learnt will appeal to your brain. Every reaction of a person towards another person is either because of threat or care(prove me wrong). Now care may mean simply not harming the other person.
When you start perceiving the other person's threats to be your own threats (even if those threats are in no way related to you), that is when you've started switching from care to love towards that person. Self-knowledge can only come when being threatened by people around you has stopped(and threat aversion techniques like lying, anger etc have ended).

Look at this image and see where you are.
http://theskooloflife.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/maslows-hierarchy.gif
Google image results are filled with different versions of this image when you search the words 'self-actualization'. So it isnt some bs that i'm throwing at you to get my point across.


>everything except for self-preservation.

Nope you'd jump in front of a speeding bus to save the ones you love(anime expression, but does get the point across).

Why do you have that prejudice against religious people? When conscience, soul and heart are the topics of discussion the morals and virtues are the only things relevant.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/25(Wed)23:06 No. 16459

>>16458
>Well perhaps this personal [...] has stopped(and threat aversion techniques like lying, anger etc have ended).
Ah, that's very understandable. It's definitely more appealing to an analytic thought process, thank you. I'm actually of a similar belief myself.

>Look at this image and see where you are.
From my perception it seems like I'm between the top two sections, though I'd honestly rather not assume anything that could be misconstrued as a self-diagnosis.

>Nope you'd jump in front of a speeding bus to save the ones you love(anime expression, but does get the point across).
Actually, surprisingly enough, the survival instinct and procreation instinct are equal in terms of priority since they are both methods by which your DNA can preserve itself. In all probability, the average joe will most likely try to save themselves and their partner at the same time.

Also jumping in front of a bus to save her would just get you both killed, haha.

>Why do you have that prejudice against religious people?
No prejudice. It's somewhat difficult to explain, but what it boils down to is that I believe the main idea behind a true concept is usually better understood by people when you strip away non-falsifiable* ideals (religions, metaphysics, etc). It's not bad, it just clutters your thesis.

*-To mean that we are currently incapable of observing empirical evidence of the phenomena.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/26(Thu)16:23 No. 16463
16463

File 134331258932.png - (228.72KB , 420x433 , gravity pornstar.png )

>>16459

Stop wasting time, think with the heart. Its easy, just think with the heart. You've been dependent on the brain too much.

The heart is the weapon, brain is its shield/armor(true story). When you have started thinking with the heart, communicate with God through it. God listens to the heart, not the brain(unless it is to shield the heart).

You are not in the top two tiers of http://theskooloflife.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/maslows-hierarchy.gif

You are in the love and belonging and self-esteem part. The shift to the top two now is easy. Think with the heart man, its as easy as saying those words. Why are you stuck? :(

Experience of the heart and morals is their only proof. Take that leap pls (gooby). It feels weird knowing someone is stuck there(the most important thing i've learnt from this thread).

You have three types of intelligence within you just know that. Aah the education system !!!


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/26(Thu)16:26 No. 16464
16464

File 134331278465.jpg - (30.65KB , 300x363 , 300px-Drill_sergeant_screams.jpg )

>>16459

Perhaps this pic will help better.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/26(Thu)16:31 No. 16465
16465

File 134331308224.jpg - (90.93KB , 640x427 , 3141517295_0224429d60_z.jpg )

>>16459

Correction, sorry for the last pic, this pic's better.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/26(Thu)16:33 No. 16466
16466

File 134331319576.jpg - (27.61KB , 400x300 , 4511835-two-camels-staring.jpg )

>>16459


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/26(Thu)16:44 No. 16467

>>16465

Troll.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/26(Thu)17:37 No. 16469

>>16459

Conscience is greater than will power.

Heart is greater than the brain.

Love is the greatest thing heart and conscience can do. Love is the greatest.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/26(Thu)19:11 No. 16470

>>16463
>>16469
Telling someone to think with their heart won't help them think with their heart, it just shows that you would like them to think with their heart. It's impossible to think with your heart in a literal sense and that just makes it sound silly. Adherence to solid information makes things much more understandable. It's like I said, your phrasing does not encompass a universally agreeable approach. There's an idea behind your message which seems to uphold great value, but the message itself is awkward and off-putting.

>You are not in the top two tiers
Well it's not like I was committed to the thought that I was, but I don't think that it's correct to make that assumption based off of a few posts on the internet.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/26(Thu)21:42 No. 16471

>>16454
>If you think that brain is the sole unit of your body that has intelligence, what are you relying on? What your schools have taught you?

You seem to be confusing "data" with wisdom.

Critical thinking is not a pile of data. It is a skill that equips one to operate one's own self, instead of being operated by it.

People tend to assume that this skill is something that one naturally has as a human being. These people are wrong.

Crimes of passion are quite common. Murders in which someone kills BECAUSE they love someone. Love neither causes nor guarantees wisdom.

Are you familiar with the ancient analogy of the chariot? The rational mind is a chariot driver. The "heart" and "gut" are the two wild horses that pull the chariot. If the charioteer does not control his horses well, they will run out of control and possibly destroy the chariot and injure or kill the charioteer.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/26(Thu)23:06 No. 16474

Perhaps, but I don't necessarily think so. I have seen many Yoga practitioners who are quite happy and serene, whereas I've seen many religious fanatics who seem a little too happy, desperately so, as if it's the last vestige of hope they can cling to. I would classify that as more demonic than serenity.

Also, I've known people who use Yoga regularly and use it to become uninteresting to mosquitoes and such, which I would call a very peaceful way to deal with pests, rather than toxins or outright destruction of the little fuckers.

Think on this, what evil do you see achieved by people who do Yoga? What cruelty or corruption do you witness on their part? Generally, in my experience (which you can dismiss if you want, but whatever), demons are a bit more direct. Even if they do wait for years, or even decades, they will have sown a few seeds of evil by this point. Yoga has been around for centuries, and it has always maintained a fairly neutral to positive position in society.

In contrast, think of many sects of organized religious activity. Their rituals are far more defined, and many of them have a much more directly evil effect on the world and society. Think of countries, even. In the Bible, there are references to angels of specific lands, but that all of them, other than Michael, became corrupt, and started lording over the lands as gods. This sounds fairly demonic to me, and the rituals of obedience and patriotic fervor are anything but positive...


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/27(Fri)06:41 No. 16483

>>16474

Yoga is a workout an nothing more. Pride and envy are the most obvious things Yoga can't conquer. Most religious fanatics are following religion only to ignore their responsibilities. Its like they pick only one or two things from religion which they can follow and do it as a formality(ritual) without ever trying to think about or trying to conquer their vices.
Don't judge a religion by the majority, judge religion based on the ones who actually follow its every single aspect. The truer the religion, the greater will be the number of people faking it. Its like if you hand something for free to a person, he won't understanding its true worth coz he hasn't earnt it on his own. He'll take it for granted. Religions can be judged only if you have conquered at least one sin/earnt at least one virtue totally based upon you own efforts.

No religion in the world ever glorifies hogging up something you haven't earnt(that counts as sloth or gluttony or stealing.) Every religion on the other hand states that if you have something that exceeds your needs give it to someone else. Even if it something you need, readily share it with everyone else. No religion wants its people to be effortless slackers, its the people's weakness to excuses that makes them think so.

Greater the number of truths recorded in a religion, greater will be the number of people taking those truths for granted. But smoother will be the life of those who know the true worth of reaching/obtaining a truth.

Well the definition of the word demon is a fallen angel. Those angels fell hence they became demons.

Major part of enlightenment is based solely upon you doing virtues. All of the enlightenment can be obtained exclusively by being virtuous. Point was if you have the time to workout, use that time to help out a needy person instead you'll ascend faster. If ascension is your only aim, that time should be spent on being virtues/killing your sins or helping others be virtuous/helping them kill their sins. All the bodily/mental benefits of Yoga and meditation can be obtained simply by having a thought out diet and being virtuous. Its just that this way will require greater patience on your part but patience is a virtue.

As i said in some cases meditation maybe required by you to help everyone around/virtuous. In that case, helping is the core intention, not working out. If you do it as a thoughtless formality, its nothing more than a ritual. A sloth ritual to be exact.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/27(Fri)08:02 No. 16488

>>16458

>your doubt was how does one think with the heart?

Answer - Forgiveness.

There is only a limited amount of wisdom the brain can find. Brain is only one kind of intelligence. There is a lot of wisdom and truths which can only be found through the other kinds of intelligence. Isn't that what the whole point of intelligence is? Being able to choose whats wise and whats not.

Not being able to find God the obvious example of the limitations of the brain. God can only be found through the heart.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/27(Fri)08:10 No. 16489

>>16458

Alright look at this way. The next time you are angry, is that something that is limited to the brain? Are envy and greed limited to the brain. Where do u feel anger, greed and envy?

Lust is the obvious example. In lust doesn't your body(hormones are part of the body too) take over your brain? Just like that in love your hearts take over your brain.

(Well writing hearts(plural)above was a freudian slip, but that makes more sense, lol. Here you go, in love your heart takes over your brain.) :D


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/27(Fri)21:44 No. 16496

>>16488
>God can only be found through the heart.

You are again making the assertion that critical thinking and deism are mutually incompatible.

This assertion is false.

Just because you imagine a thing to be so does not mean it is so. I think the relationship with God you describe, only realized through part of oneself, is shallow and superficial. A thing to be pitied, not exalted.

In the ideal relationship with God, one should not have to 'turn off' one's brain to 'get it'. One's relationship with God should be more developed that the relationship one might have with a mindless popcorn action film.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/28(Sat)07:46 No. 16497

>>16488

Thinking with the heart doesnt imply switching off the brain. The three intelligences should work in unison. Simple example being when you think with the heart you can still read whats written(signals go from the eye to the brain and it is the brain that processes the words).

Its just that those who think exclusively with the brain are so dependent on it that when something is worth the heart dominating the brain, they suppress it thinking if the brain is not at the forefront they'll lose everything.

Brain should serve the heart. Heart-->brain--> body that should be the hierarchy. This concept can be found in every single religion all over the world, even though it may not explicitly state so.

Now if you even have the slightest of ethics/virtues it is only because your heart and conscience have dominated the brain(perhaps without you knowing/observing it) at some point of time in your life.

Thinking with the heart doesn't mean brain becomes a useless entity. You still have to process the speed and direction of a speeding bus in order to save your loved one. The brain should be serving the heart thats my only point. Heart is the center for love, selflessness and.

I'm not saying your understanding of God is wrong(i know it isn't). All i'm saying is that you have that understanding only because your brain is serving your heart and conscience without you knowing it(you've pulled that off naturally, without struggling most probably during your innocent childhood phase). Go all out with the conscience. Let your brain serve your conscience. Let it lose itself to the conscience. Let your brain grow according to the conscience(remember the deciphering a man based on his conscience example?).

Your being a math prodigy is nothing in the eyes of God if you can't be selfless, compared to lets say a guy who has no understanding of numbers but has lived all his life selflessly. Who would God rather send to heaven/hell?

You cant say to God that well i cant be selfless but i won the nobel prize for mathematics so i'm ok. That is something that can only work with humans. Every man who is innocent at heart will label you as weak if you use that excuse in front of him and he'd be right even if the most advanced mathematical brain in the world may agree with you.

Understanding of some truths is exclusive to the heart. If i'd gone to the topmost illuminati(or whatever the name is) leader with this discussion of ethics and virtues he'd have rejected me as an idiot and mocked me(maybe he'd have thrown me into a dungeon lol). But we are still having a conversation. Chances are the illuminati leader has a more advanced brain than both of our brains combined(or maybe even a multiple of that), but does he know the truth? Aren't we both certain that there is something fruitful that will come out of this discussion. Why isn't he? Over dependance on the brain is his failure. With all his calculations and experience, he just wont be able to see that ethics and selflessness can be logical/smart. It is the understanding we have gained within and through our hearts that is the cause behind this conversation.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/28(Sat)07:54 No. 16498

>>16496

>>16497

From the brain's point of view, if you can see that the three types of intelligence are in fact real, try different permutations of the hierarchy for yourself and collect data for each one of them. You know for sure what one combination is, why not try the other ones? Isn't that an important step in knowing yourself ?

Try going all out with the conscience, even if for lets say 5 mins a day as an experiment, and see how it is for you. But the collection of data will take patience in the beginning, give the experiment enough time to bloom, don't expect instantaneous results. Slowly the results will become clear. Patience and courage(on the brain's part, i.e., courage to hand control to the conscience and live as its servant) are the only things required to live in the conscience initially, all other virtues will then follow.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/28(Sat)09:19 No. 16500

>>16496

Ok, i understand now. I'm not saying the brain is useless. If you have an advanced servant to the heart, you'll be able to fulfill more of your responsibilities towards love. But if you develop the brain under the heart it will grow faster(try for yourself). The actions and progress should follow that heirarchy. What i'm trying to say is, what is the need to know when the next supernova will occur when you have children dying out off hunger in Africa? All those brainy calculations could have gone in helping to create a system of management/physical mechanisms for the needy. It isn't as if brain would be less satisfied finding physics to help the earth than physics to decipher a star(only your ego leads you to think so), i mean is there no star level brainy research that can be done solely with the purpose of helping a needy country in Africa? But if you think only with your ego and brain you will never find it, if you choose to take the heartfelt path you're brain will also have to think the new possibilities(new knowledge), also learn the social mechanisms(new skills), it will be more satisfied at every step(because of kindness and love) and the new skills, greater knowledge and greater satisfaction will ultimately lead to greater outputs and greater development of the brain in the long run. The nerdy professor who'd have spent his life in loneliness researching a star would have learned social skills and started having a more social life which would obviously benefit his brain's progress and overall satisfaction with life, its just that this path will require greater diligence and patience on his part, diligence and patience only the heart can communicate, the brain cannot know on its own. I hope this makes my point clearer.

If you choose to ignore your heart you choose to ignore your responsibilities(the sin of sloth). Again if the brain chooses not to work thinking it is ok since it is under the heart(fulfilling a formality/a ritual), it is sloth too. No type of intelligence should be switched off, but the progress should be according to the hierarchy. Hence, the original topic. If the path through your heart and love doesn't require Yoga/meditation you are only serving your ego, i.e, demons. Doing that as a routine for ascension is just a wastage of time!

Conscience and heart are the fastest path to the soul and God. Brain can only know so much. Knowing God exclusively through the brain whie possible will take the longest time, something which might not be even possible in your time on earth.

You have ethics encoded in you in the form of conscience(you dont need to read a book to feel bad for hitting your friend as a child), that is like direct guidance from God to you, why not try and put it to the forefront?


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/28(Sat)19:38 No. 16504

>>16497
I don't think you understand what you're saying.

First you say
>The three intelligences should work in unison.

But then you contradict that by saying
>Brain should serve the heart.

If the various "intelligences" are truly working in unison, then both brain and heart are serving the gestalt, and neither is serving the other. To go back to the chariot analogy, the charioteer manages the horses for the good of the chariot, or the self. The horses are what moves the chariot, and the charioteer is what keeps the horses from going out of control. All for the good of the unit. A charioteer that reins in the horses too much will travel very slowly, but a charioteer that does not check his horses will be overturned, injured, or killed.

Your assertion that there is a hierarchy directly contradicts the point that there should be cooperation.

You seem to be conversing reasonably intelligently, so you must have had some experience with critical thinking, perhaps during your open-minded childhood phase, before being indoctrinated with slogans, given answers before you knew to ask the questions for yourself.

You may say that I'm a thinker, but I'm not the only one. Perhaps some day you'll join us.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/28(Sat)19:45 No. 16505

>>16500
>What i'm trying to say is, what is the need to know when the next supernova will occur when you have children dying out off hunger in Africa?

Here, again, you show that you do not understand what critical thinking is. Critical thinking is not a pile of facts and calculations, it is a skill. Someone who is ignorant of all sorts of maths and sciences can still exhibit critical thinking, likewise ones who have acquired all this knowledge might never have developed this skill.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/28(Sat)22:21 No. 16507

>perhaps during your open-minded childhood phase

i lol'd, sorry to have upset you, was never my intention.

Well try to understand that some misunderstanding through this communication can solely exist due to my lack of a good English/grammar. Try to see my intention, rather than the exact literal meaning, literal meanings will get better with every new response, lol. What i meant to say was the unison to serve the gestalt(soul and God) can never be reached without that hierarchy.

To reach the soul, brain has to be serve the conscience only then can it truly understand it. What is the definition of ignoring the conscience according to you? Giving brain preference over conscience is ignoring the conscience(hence it is egoistic). When the brain is under the conscience and serving it, it will slowly understand what the conscience is, and the next step would then be unison. Other way around cannot work. The brain has to bow before the conscience.

No one has indoctrinated me, everything is either my own research or experience.

The brain only serves(either the ego or the conscience, God or the Devil, every second you are either selfless or selfish). The thing is selflessness will many times require you to solely develop yourself in order to help others. So self development and progress are also covered up in selflessness. If you ditch serving the conscience thinking it will hinder you'll progress, you are being selfish and you will only fall spiritually.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/28(Sat)22:26 No. 16508

>>16507

Correction: If you ditch serving the conscience thinking it will hinder your progress, you are being selfish and you will only fall spiritually.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/28(Sat)22:46 No. 16509

>>16507

I was not upset. I was being quite literal. At one time, you were inquisitive about every single thing in your experience, inside you and outside you. This is how humans begin. At some point, you lost this, and you must regain it, because THAT is the only way you can find enlightenment. You cannot get to a destination in a car without putting your hands on the wheel as well as putting your foot on the gas, and you cannot find the Self, the one more trustworthy than all the sages, without your brain and your heart both serving You.

By making part of yourself subservient to another, you are imbalanced. You are not a whole person. You are giving free rein to your horses and they are taking you around the coliseum, and you think these circles you are making are a fine success, not realizing that there are roads outside the coliseum.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/29(Sun)09:59 No. 16510

>>16509

Ok, do you think the conscience can learn? The unison can learn. The conscience can only say what value/ethic/virtue needs to be fulfilled in a situation or what sin is close to being possible. Learning and decision making is the brain's duty(when unison isn't achieved). Discuss only about the case when unison hasn't been achieved(after unison theres no such thing as independence of the three intelligences). If at any point the brain considers itself superior, it cannot learn about the conscience, it will miss out on something.

The basic discussion boils down to this. Can the unison be achieved through keeping only the brain as the most superior at every point of time?

Unison can be surely achieved by keeping conscience as the most superior at every point of time.

In other words, for reaching unison conscience being the most superior is inevitable. Brain being the most superior is not, unison can be reached by the one who has never brought the brain at the topmost part of the hierarchy.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/30(Mon)00:39 No. 16512

>>16510
>Ok, do you think the conscience can learn?
Of course. The mind can learn. The body can learn. Any part of a human can learn.

>Can the unison be achieved through keeping only the brain as the most superior at every point of time? Unison can be surely achieved by keeping conscience as the most superior at every point of time.

You keep insisting that one must be superior to the other.

I am pointing out one way that is an imbalance, and you are trying to keep discussing this as if I am arguing for imbalance in the opposite direction. The fact that you cannot envision a state in which all parts are balanced shows that you have yet to begin achieving it. Like alcoholism, the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. That you are unbalanced, and not in full control of your Self.

You cannot find the Self with this "hierarchy" idea. The parts of you must be made to serve the Self directly.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/30(Mon)07:39 No. 16513

>>16512

Love IS superior than reasoning.

No point discussing about Love if you haven't experienced it. Discussions can only go so far, experience is its only proof(anime/movie/cliche as it may sound, but it is true). Just because it is cliche doesn't mean it can't be true. Brain cannot understand love independently. That is its limitation. Heart is the only way. If love hasn't been experienced(through lets say a girlfriend), forgiveness and selflessness towards everyone around(even if the brain finds it illogical) is the only way.

The brain cannot simulate love. Forgiveness is in itself selflessness, forgive everything and everyone that is the only way to enter the realm of love if you haven't met anyone in front of whom love and heart can't be helped.

Brain IS inferior to the Heart. That is true.

Once love has been experienced, all the cliche concepts in romantic movies/songs will start making sense too. That is the reason behind their success. The basic cliche concept being Love cannot be understood before experience, once experienced love is the greatest thing a human can do, the greatest experience a human can get. It is bound to be successful even if its cliche, because it is true.

As I've said before, Love has all other virtues embedded naturally within it. You cannot claim to love truely if you have anyone of the virtues missing. That is why the one who lives in love will always reach wisdom fastest, some truths and wisdom he'll reach exclusively.

If you have an example around you, you can see that even the dumbest guy who has experienced love suddenly becomes wiser than the smartest guy around(who has never experienced love.)

God doesn't care about the smartness or the brain per se if a person can love truly. If a person reaches true love, God will come personally to pick him up. There's no escaping or ignoring God if you have reached true love. Love is the fastest path to God.

If brain was of any importance, people born with mental handicaps or lacking one of the senses would be doomed.

Love is the greatest virtue. It is the greatest test for a human, greatest developer of his personality and character. It is free from all things selfish.

How can you claim God is fair with everyone if some people are born with these things missing? People born with a missing body part have a part of their body part are missing a part of their bodily intelligence. Are the mentally or physically handicapped people inferior in the eyes of God? No, because true love(well if it isn't true it isn't love, its a business deal) is greater than intelligence of any kind. They have a heart that can love if they are alive, that is all that counts for God. Every religion(not philosophies) puts body and brain's exclusive endeavors(example greed for knowledge) to the trashcan, this is the reason.

Don't look at the fake/formality fulfilling Christians, this concept of brain and body to the trashcan is misinterpreted by most as an excuse to enter sloth mode with respect to brain and the body.

If love requires developing the brain and the body and you don't do it its a sin. If brain and body are developed without love, it is a sin again.

You cant force yourself to love a girlfriend, but a girl will come where you won't be able to stop yourself from loving her. Heart will dominate, when that happens brain can only bow to it.

What this discussion has taught me that if a man hasn't experienced love through this way, God takes care to keep him wise and virtuous. But once you experience love you are on your own for most part. Failing after experiencing love is what takes you away from God, in the extreme case it turns you satanic.

There are no coincidences. Every coincidence is to ensure that everyone involved in it goes to heaven, it is our responsibility to see how(thats understanding God). The great thing is the coincidences still follow the laws of physics and mathematics.

Heisenberg's uncertainty principle being the best example. If the probability of every event to guide you to heaven exceeds the Heisenberg's uncertainty limit, you die and go to hell. That is my interpretation.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/30(Mon)07:53 No. 16514

>>16512

You were right i was running in circles. Most of it was only because i am right brained and you are left brained and i couldnt find a way to communicate(and that is why you had to run in circles with and for me, lol). Through this discussion both of us have at least learnt the way to communicate with someone using a different part of the brain predominantly, that is certain.

Well i'll still tell you to read >>16390, theres no running in circles there. Anything new you find there will only help you, i assure you.

And the thing i said about Jesus is true. You don't need to cancel out bad karma with good karma if you bow to Jesus. If the understanding of the sin/virtue has become a part of you that is more than enough if you go to Jesus, the extra good karma part will be cancelled out by him. That is what is meant by 'Jesus died for your sins'.

I've only started reading the bible, but the new thing that i've learnt from it is that it is ok if the fear of the wrath of God is your only motivation in life to be virtuous but all other types of fears are a no no, you have to conquer them.

Now that i think of it, why else would he let us know that hell is full of tortures, if he didnt want us to motivate through it. So maybe the people who join a religion because of the fear of hell are justified(i used to think love for God should be the only reason). I still have to look into the details of this situation, but this is the new thing i've learnt, lol. Any thoughts on this topic are welcome and asked for.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/30(Mon)18:55 No. 16517

>>16513
>No point discussing about Love if you haven't experienced it.

You assume I haven't. I could just as easily say that there's no point in discussing a rational relationship with God if you haven't experienced it, but that would be a cheap distraction from the point that you need BOTH, and one does not lead to the other.

>The brain cannot simulate love.

And love cannot simulate rationality. You need both.

>Brain IS inferior to the Heart. That is true.

That is false. The gas pedal is neither superior nor inferior to the steering wheel.

>As I've said before, Love has all other virtues embedded naturally within it.

You cannot steer with the gas pedal.

>Heisenberg's uncertainty principle

You have no idea what Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is. All the principle states is that if we measure a particle's velocity, we cannot know its precise location, and if we measure its location we cannot know its precise velocity. It has nothing to do with morality.

>I've only started reading the bible, but the new thing that i've learnt from it

I see the problem. You've got a LOT of reading to do. When you're finished with the Bible, you have yet to do as Christian scholars of old did and read OTHER books. Read the Summa Theologica by Saint Thomas Aquinas. Read what HE read in making that, read Plato and Aristotle. Read. Just read.

You see, you've started climbing the mountain, and you're in the foothills looking down on those in the valley and marveling at how much higher you are than they. Now you must turn and marvel at how much more you have to climb. And then when you begin climbing in earnest, you will marvel that the more you climb, the higher the mountain becomes. But do not despair that the peak is always in sight but never in reach, because the peak is not your goal. It is the climb.

Keep climbing.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/31(Tue)09:21 No. 16519

>>16517

>The gas pedal is neither superior nor inferior to the steering wheel.

No. The brain is inferior to the soul. After you die, your brain and body will perish on earth, and only your soul will be judged.

Bhagawad gita calls body a machine(a tool) for the soul.

This is the verse-->The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine(the body), made of the material energy(the body).

http://vedabase.net/bg/18/61/

Bible --> Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

http://bible.cc/matthew/10-28.htm

Bring me one religion that talks about God and talks about the body and brain being superior to the soul/heart/conscience as ok.

Buddhism is out of the question, Buddha could never know God for even a single second. Buddhism is not a religion, it is a philosophy.

There is no such thing as a unison, i.e., body and brain being equal to the soul. Anything close to unison is when body and brain follow the soul(and God) as its absolute bitches without wasting even a spec of a time.

Body and brain should be soul's bitches. If brain is trying to defend itself independent of the soul, it is ego(ego = brain's consciousness). If brain is not under soul/God it is under the devil. No other possibilities exist. You have two choices(from the brain's point of view and hence action's), it can either side with the God or the devil. There is no such thing as a 'grey' action if you understand action is always defined by the intention behind it. Intentions can either be black or white, there are no grey intentions(only the delusion of it created by the ego).

Your body has been given to you as your soul's tool to act and grow and prosper. If your soul fails to control your body at any point of time, it will judged after death for letting that happen while your brain and body are left behind on earth to decompose.

You are not your brain/body, You are the Soul.

Be illogically forgiving and selfless for every second, you'll enter the realm of love and finally soul and God. Forgiveness and selflessness are never 'illogical', any argument against that is an illusion.
These verses from religious books make the most sense after the books are read in its entirety. There is a reason that verse in the bible is Matthew 10:28, and the verse in Gita is 18.61.


Read up on >>16390, that is my Experience expressed in my own words, maybe you'll be able to connect with it better until you've started reading the religious books.

As i said if you read the Gita, it will have the extra cancelling out bad karma responsibility in it(Jesus wasn't even born when it was written). After Jesus if true understanding of a sin/virtue is gained, Jesus will cancel the bad karma for you but only if you go to him. He won't come and enslave you giving you your good karma, you have to go and ask him for that with your freewill. Jesus and God will never hinder your freewill unless you've asked them to do so.

If you go to Jesus even without the understanding of sins/virtues, he will guide you to that understanding but you'll have to truly live as his slave until that. Readily become Jesus/God's slave, best thing you can do for yourself.

Even in the Gita it is said that surrendering to the supreme being is every soul's duty.
http://vedabase.net/bg/18/62/en

Even trying to develop your soul without God counts as ego, this is where Gautam Buddha failed !!


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/31(Tue)13:03 No. 16523

>>16519

I won't be coming here anymore. Read religious books, bible is the most relevant in this day and age.

Read the King James version, it is more of an art than a collection of facts(written through the heart). It talks in poetry and symbolism, read it with gratitude and love for Jesus and God in your heart. Dont let society's view of following Jesus as uncool stop you, see for yourself.
Read it with heart, learn it by heart.

I'm no indoctrinated christian, everything here is my own experience and research.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/07/31(Tue)18:33 No. 16525

>>16519
>Bhagawad gita calls body a machine(a tool) for the soul.

Yes. And you must master the use of this machine. If you don't, the machine will master the use of you. The only way to master the use of any tool is to use it to its fullest potential.

>I'm no indoctrinated christian, everything here is my own experience and research.

If you knew what was living in your skull, you'd know how easy it is for one to indoctrinate oneself.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/08/01(Wed)05:28 No. 16540

>>16525

>If you knew what was living in your skull, you'd know how easy it is for one to indoctrinate oneself.

Why do you fear being indoctrinated?(that is what you actually meant). Be virtuous and the soul will start taking over the body. Dont even worry about that part, God has all the answers you need at any point of time, nothing is ever lost. Physically kneel before God everyday and ask for his guidance with all your heart and being. Its as easy as that. If done with the heart truly, before you or anyone else can understand/imagine you will be with Him in no time.

Personal experience: Share whatever you have learned or progressed with everyone around. I failed here most of my life(sloth).

God wont reject even the world's greatest sinner if he comes to Him. Most people have followed virtues(at least one) all their life, why should they be hesitant? Don't feel hesitant/ashamed. Dont worry about what people would think, only thing that matters is what God thinks. You'll feel physically(let alone spiritually) forgiven once you've done that with all your heart and every corner of your body. Its easy, just call out to him while kneeling(well simply calling out will also work, why not kneel too?). No knowledge of any book is required to do that, nothing scary needs to be done, you know within that if this is done you'll be acknowledged and He'll listen, this understanding is present in you since birth. Do it.

Ask Him for His forgiveness everyday and gift Him your loyalty. Your freewill is one of the greatest gifts you can give Him, your Love is the greatest gift. Love Him. Once you've readily become his servant, all your worries, confusions and expectations will perish. Everything will be pure peace.

If you become his servant, He wont treat you as a mere slave/servant he will treat you as a child. Is there any shame in serving a parent? The parent(Father) in this case is a perfect one. Spend every second of your life being and doing as He says. What more can anyone ask for? Why should people see that as shameful?

PS - if you still feel this is Christian indoctrination, i'm sorry, all i have to say is its not. I'll say this, almost everything i've shared is backed by my own experience. Trust me or not, that is up to you.

I know you've gained something from this(so have i). I dont have anything more to say. I'll only be repeating whatever i've previously said in any further discussions.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/08/01(Wed)19:31 No. 16545

>>16540

>Why do you fear being indoctrinated?

Why do you assume that fear is involved?

>Your freewill is one of the greatest gifts you can give Him,

Why would I spit in His face by throwing the greatest gift He gave me at His feet and shitting upon it?


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/08/01(Wed)22:43 No. 16547

>>16540
What if instead of giving away your free will, you use it to observe new and revolutionary ideas in pursuit of the greater good for humanity- in which destructive/obtrusive actions (violence, buzzword newscasting, corporatism, forcing optional/outdated beliefs, impatience, etc.) are no longer prominent? To devote yourself to an ideal which benefits all of humanity instead of clashing with dissenters until you arrive at an inevitable impasse which can only be broken through violence or involuntary pacification. To drive the human civilization forward as a whole, and with a culture that encompasses a wide range of adaptability, instead of teaching people that only one solution can possibly exist.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/08/02(Thu)02:55 No. 16549

>>16547

Giving your free-will to Him = God acting through you. Do you think he doesnt want those changes for the good of humanity?

You giving your free-will to Him doesnt mean He'll rip it off you. Why would he do that? To increase His human freewill collection? As i said before he wont treat you as a slave, he'll treat you as a child. He doesnt want slaves, He wants children. Take a 4 year child as an example, crossing the road alone could be fatal for him, a Father is in no way wrong if he forces him to hold his hand. That doesn't mean he(in this case the Father is perfect) will never let him do anything on his own ever in his life. He will also allow him to play freely, just not during the road crossing.

Allow God to hold your hand and help you(if needed force you) to cross the road when that is in your and/or humanity's best interest. That is all giving your freewill to him means. It doesnt mean he wont allow you to play when you deserve it. Or develop something on your own when you deserve it.

God wants you to have pure freewill. That is why he will never force you to hold his hand unless you have personally asked him to do so. But holding his hand when he is forcing you is undoubtedly in your and the rest of the world's best interest at the same time.

He'll help/make you do something at a given point of time which would also ensure you having the maximum amount of time for playing around while fulfilling all duties you were needed to perform. An understanding perhaps no man can gain in his entire lifetime exclusively on his own.

Know for sure once whatever is involved in crossing a particular road is learnt you'll be left on your own. You will be left free to find your own roads when forcing/guiding is not necessary. If you somehow get stuck even in those roads, you'll be readily guided. Obviously, when not holding your hand is in our best interest, you will be left on your own to discover and learn. He may even leave your hand halfway through a road so that you can learn the remaining part on your own. The perfect Father and his child example IS your relationship with God.

Give whatever gifts you can give Him whenever you can as gratitude. no shame in giving gifts to a perfect Father, that in fact becomes a duty on the child's part.

His availability as a guide after granting us freewill is an even greater gift than the freewill itself if you think about it. He could have left you on your own after granting you free will and then judging you after you die without ever guiding you for even a single second. But He didnt do so, He is available to help you, always. That is how much He loves you(hope you can see that is indeed a greatly humbling gift). Accept and use the gift of his guidance. There's no way anyone can justify not using that gift. Its not as if you can find a solution better than God in a given situation.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/08/02(Thu)03:25 No. 16550

>>16549

Why would I need a hand to hold when I can look both ways with the eyes He has given me, decide to cross with the mind He has given me, and walk across the street with the legs He has given me?


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/08/02(Thu)06:07 No. 16553

>>16549
Is it that hard to imagine that people are capable of enlightening themselves and those around them solely for the sake of their fellow human, with disregard for traditional ideals? Why can't one devote their being to human progression without committing to a non-changeable method which teaches that all other methods are incorrect? I believe that a singularity of coexistence can be achieved through acceptance in the name of progress. As it is commonly said, "It's rude to speak of politics or religion in public."


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/08/02(Thu)15:51 No. 16554

>Why would I need a hand to hold when I can look both ways with the eyes He has given me, decide to cross with the mind He has given me, and walk across the street with the legs He has given me?

Alright that is your own choice, i wont come between your understanding of God. Discover God on your own. Only you can understand God the way you are meant to. My goal was to show you all the options available to you. I've done that.

>>16553

Lets take the discussion only towards enlightenment. All i've said about enlightenment is that it cannot be reached by someone who has thought exclusively with the brain at every point of time. Path to enlightenment will inevitably involve your conscience and heart taking over as dominant. What i'm telling you is that the knowledge of your soul can enter the brain only after it has lived as a slave/servant to the conscience. It cannot gain that understanding independently. When the soul has been discovered(while the brain is a servant), it will never let the body and brain take over, body and brain taking over after that will only lead to and count as fall from enlightenment. It will count as a failure for your soul.


>"It's rude to speak of politics or religion in public."

Nigger Nigger Nigger Nigger. Rudeness is a problem in public, not on boards :P

But i will tell you this, YOU ARE A NIGGER WITHIN, BETTER EMBRACE IT. Ain't no fooling me nigga, i'm enlightened. :O


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/08/02(Thu)15:55 No. 16555
16555

File 134391570090.png - (137.06KB , 265x290 , nigger.png )

Pic related, its you. Sue me, bahahahahahahaha


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/08/02(Thu)16:29 No. 16557

>>16553

Random posts aside, dont strike an option out simply because its traditional. Even in your nontraditional endeavours, the traditional step might just be the best step you can take for yourself. All options are open to you Nigga, use them.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/08/03(Fri)00:50 No. 16572

>>16554
I see, but under what restriction is the soul tied to enlightenment? Can one not understand the world through the way it works, and in the embrace of patience, obtain an inner peace centered around love for your fellow man and their well being? Of course, I refer to loving them directly, not through a conceptual proxy before doing so. I cite for you Immanuel Kant's reply to a fine reverend's question: "What is enlightenment?"
He answered: "Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) 'Have the courage to use your own understanding,' is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."

His point is that enlightenment is only achievable when information is examined without the filter of self-imposed restrictions and misplaced focus, namely most traditions. The human species shouldn't rely on traditions in the pursuit of enlightenment, as they are incapable of adapting to humanity's constantly shifting society and knowledge. If the ideas which humanity holds on to can not change, then what change can be brought about in humanity? Under this train of thought we can conclude that many of our perceptions and traditions (such as marriage and political parties) are outdated and are no longer required as a tool. In other words, what was once a necessity is now a hindrance. Inefficient traditions hold us back by diverting our efforts and resources toward the things which we used to use for progression. If these traditions are inefficient, then we need new ones. The need for something new means the idea is outdated, and as fallacious as it may sound, perhaps our perception of the soul is outdated as well.

It actually isn't that far fetched to consider that the soul is capable of being examined empirically. It is supposedly composed of energy, is it not? The problem here is that we're currently incapable of observing this energy without the aid of a spiritualistic guideline. This just means we aren't quite capable of fully understanding it yet. You see, all things which exist in our universe can be quantified and measured- it is an observable truth of the cosmos. Unfortunately, our current epoch of science is still in its fledgling era. It will be a long time before we can put non-falsifiable concepts to the test, so while they may be required for theology, attempting to teach them before our understanding can even begin will only restrain our progression toward enlightenment.

The fact that we can not readily observe a concept or event simply means that its true nature is currently shrouded by ignorance. As such, humanity- in the event that we do not destroy ourselves- will one day know how these things work. The only way to get there without inadvertently beating ourselves up is to proceed with patience and understanding of observable truths.

Our societies are more liberal than back in the early days of world civilization, but to put things in perspective: For many ages humanity had thought that the cosmos revolved around the Earth. When presented with contradicting evidence, the church looked to their traditions and said "This does not fit with our understanding.", at which point they denounced Galileo's discovery despite the evidence shown to their faces. The truth he presented did not conform to their practices, and was thus labeled incorrect. This is what I mean when I say that most traditions hold us back. A tether to some sense of material devotion or allegations of the spiritual only serve to divert our focus away from necessities.

To enlighten oneself entails a conclusion which must be arrived at on one's own, and then comparing that conclusion to what is known to be true. Not to cast away the wild possibilities we concoct, but to observe them under the assumption that they aren't correct. Then, if they can't be explained or denied, we "keep them on hold" until we can. Then, finally, when we are capable of confirming or denying the possibility, we can observe a truth which in all likelihood will spark more possibilities. With more questions asked than answered, we must alter what we once knew as the truth in accordance to what is truly known.

Through the advent of science and rationalism we can discover the truth. It's not a perfect system, but it's the most efficient one we know. Its best feature is that we can alter it if we find something wrong with it- a direct opposite to non-changeable and inefficient traditions. The process of pushing ourselves to advance the whole will force us to observe the answers we seek. Enacting patience will steer us toward progression. And in that progression, we will be able to know what a soul truly is and whether or not it is as important as we once thought it to be. It is this kind of understanding which will lead the human race to prosperity. Without taking the step, the risk of progression, we can only entrench ourselves in squabbles between which "perfect teaching" is more perfect than the other. Breaking free of our anchors will lead to unprecedented advancement and unity. A varied civilization of wide beliefs in all shapes and forms with one common goal: human advancement to the point of cultural enlightenment. Oneness with the natural sphere of the universe.

Our nature is designed to observe the cosmos. We are made from the universe, and we can not join the universe in harmony if we can not adapt our view of it to conform to its truth rather than what we believe to be its truth. The unity we achieve will lead us to colonize the stars not as a race, not as a religion, but as a species in search of the ultimate truths.

In the future, they will strain to find the blue planet orbiting a middle aged star several hundred light years from where they stand and say "That spec of light is where we came from". They will think of their history lessons and how we used to be an intolerant, superstitious, geocentric form of life. They may mention something like "What barbarians we used to be." in a thought fueled not by contempt, but by intrigue.

They will lie closer to universal enlightenment than we ever could have, for they will understand a greater portion of the universe than we do now. They will know that to understand the universe is to understand yourself, and they will express their understanding in mathematics- the purest form of truth. They will refuse to accept the idea that they have access to the answers they seek, especially when the cost is their ability to progress unhindered.

So long as the human species lives on, we cannot avoid a yearning to understand the universe. We cannot deny our urge to advance toward a singularity of truth. The unfortunate situation we're stuck in is that there is no help for us in sight. We're all on this planet together. As it stands, the human race is insignificant. We are threatened by our self importance and apathy, a preference to assign ourselves the favor of some entity more than the favor of our own species. Knowledge and understanding are the tools we have no choice but to use to achieve enlightenment, and the thirst for knowledge and understanding can never die. This thirst will drive us to a glorious dawn, without unnecessary restrictions, and with proper understanding a cosmic unity can be achieved.

>Rudeness is a problem in public, not on boards :P
What enlightenment can you possibly achieve without empathy?


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/08/03(Fri)03:09 No. 16574

>>16554

>My goal was to show you all the options available to you.

No it wasn't. Read your own posts. Your goal was to demand the superiority of one road over all others.

>Lets take the discussion only towards enlightenment.

Okay. A man who pilots himself directly and intentionally to hell is closer to enlightenment than a man who allows himself to be led to heaven.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/08/03(Fri)15:49 No. 16577

>His point is that enlightenment is only achievable when information is examined without the filter of self-imposed restrictions and misplaced focus, namely most traditions.

True. That is the theme of the original topic in the first place. I didnt know christians denied meditating before i discussed on here. I dont live in a country where its all Jehovah's witness at the door or people wanting to have a word about Jesus. In such countries, people either blatanly follow the religion they're born in, or follow a religion which appeals to their own observation and understanding. There are no roadside preachers. That is a problem majorly in the US and Europe. And it is obvious that the Christians have failed to ensure the other guy wasn't feeling forced while they 'preached'. The bible rejects forcing by counting it as a sin in the first place.

My empirical conclusion that virtues are the fastest path to a soul led me to the bible and not the other way around. That conclusion is how i learnt that meditation is useless in majority of cases.

If a person has a belief that matches the traditional it doesnt mean that it is only because of blatantly following traditions and not through experimentations. The experimentation may lead to a traditional conclusion. Simplest example being running an experiment of lying for a full month, and then speaking the truth and only the truth for one month. And then seeing what has the best benefits. In such an experiment one can reach the traditional conclusion 'Honesty is the best policy'. But if he is biased against that conclusion because of the tag of traditional, he'll mislead himself. Whats the point of even putting tags like traditional/non-traditional if empirical conclusions are to be drawn. Tags will only end up hindering/biasing the experimentation. Every thing should be like option A, option B option C, no predefined words attached to the data, predefined tags only after a conclusion is reached so that the experiment can be communicated with the world, and the validity of the pre-defined tags can be understood.

Pre-existing conclusions maybe enough in many cases. For example, if you experiment with heroin and you have the pre-reached data that usage beyond a certain point = overdose, would you overdose? Would you test if the limit is wrong and you can get past that limit without overdosing? Pre-reached may not mean it is wrong, or even worthy of challenging. Addictions and fatalities are the obvious case. You should be able to judge what knowledge is true when a pre-reached conclusion is simply obtained without experimentation and when it should be challenged. Being able to judge when it is true and building up on it without experimentation will lead to a faster growth. This being able to judge beforehand what is true and what is not can only be reached by an empirical person. As i said my goal was to present to you what conclusions i have observed to be true. This will only help you in the long run if you are able to recognize an observation as true beforehand. That is the point of knowledge collection in the first place.

But the cases when experimentation may be fatal or lead to addiction are where one needs to be careful. This is where knowing pre-known/traditional knowledge could be used as a fallback, because the conclusions would have been researched and preserved with great care. Example - Sins are addictive is a traditional knowledge. So creating a backup strategy in case one gets addicted before starting the experiment would be a wise decision rather than never ever collecting a traditional knowledge. Collect all types of knowledge and data unbiasedly without any tagging.

If a truth is found, sharing it is the only option available, it is the other person's responsibility to challenge it. One who has found it can only state it. If it has been found centuries ago, it will have been stated in the best way possible. You cant express it in any other way. So the traditional belief that is true can only be stated in the way it had been stated previously, anything added or taken away will not be the complete truth.

>A man who pilots himself directly and intentionally to hell is closer to enlightenment than a man who allows himself to be led to heaven.

Hell is full of addictions and fatalities. The path to hell will lead to enlightenment only if one does not get addicted/dependent or lose his life(eg: the sin of suicide) along the way. The one addicted will not be able to see a way past the addictions unless someone else demands him to do so. He may end up getting stuck at a mere point or at best a small area of exploration instead of the whole infinity available. When stuck inside an area, the desire to explore will keep getting met until the area runs out and theres nothing left to explore. Now this philosophy may have been justified if your life was infinite. If it is limited the time left inside the area or on a point will have counted as time wasted on an addiction. Time wasted on an addiction is not only your own time wasted, but also a wasted chance to share the infinity with the world. Because when psychological addictions exist, majority will be stuck there without the knowledge of any other ways even existing. It is the truth of a limited life which makes the ability to recognize truths before experimentation a necessity. A skill which cannot be reached without understanding what experimentation is AND in what cases experimentation is pointless. This is why sharing of one's philosophy and discoveries becomes a necessity, and this why we are together in this. If life had been infinite, the together part could have been thrown away altogether. In togetherness the demand of every individual in the whole unit are justified and should be pondered upon(all for one and one for all). In a unit it is the right of a individual to demand. The meeting or rejection of the demands is the decision of the whole group.
Demanding is not forcing. You are free to reject the demands. Forcing results from ego, demands can result solely from love and empathy. Love and empathy are the most important qualities in a group.

This difference between demanding and forcing is what most Christians fail to understand.

>Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage.

Then why the brain? Can thinking with the brain exclusively not be a nonage? Or has it been reached through challenging the reliance on the brain in the first place? Is thinking with the brain dominantly a conclusion that will always be reached as the best option available whenever thinking with the brain is challenged? Is the dependance on the brain a truth? Or are there better ways? If it isnt the best way, that would imply you being stuck in a rut. Is the brain a rut?


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/08/03(Fri)16:35 No. 16578

>>16574

As i said before i have committed the sloth of not sharing my findings with the world, and have confessed that i am running in circles as far as explaining/discussing/debating goes. I knew i could manage the not forcing and being only in the demand state, but could not know when the demands are presented in a rude way. That is why i came on a board first, where rudeness is taken as an act that is expected, taken for granted and the people know how to look past the rudeness. Rudeness is a proof of not being enlightened, the >>16390 post was understanding from my enlightened phase. There is no running in circles there.

That sloth is the reason behind rejection by Jesus in >>16411(chickening out of a responsibility), i had a chance for years until He totally rejected me. I cant go back until i've learnt to carry out this responsibility. The soul isnt just energy, energy is something limited to the physical 3D realm. Soul transcends the 3-D realm into the realm of God, heaven and Hell, angels and demons while on earth. Brain independently can only understand the 3D, understanding of the other realm can only enter it through the soul. Things such as communication with Jesus and God will always seem to be an impossibility to the brain, it can never understand how. I failed after God's hand leaving me middle of the road, even though i could understand being careful when roads were my own choice, or handed over to discover completely on my own. This is the cause of this discussion, that is why being in the learning phase is obvious through my discussions with you and cannot be found earlier. When you are on your own you may be on the path to failure, that is when other people's demands or suggestions should be heeded and pondered upon, they may just be guiding you especially when empathy and love are involved. The demands are your responsibility too howsoever dumb they may seem.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/08/03(Fri)18:50 No. 16580

>>16577
>The path to hell will lead to enlightenment only if one does not get addicted/dependent or lose his life(eg: the sin of suicide) along the way.

Which is inherent in the description of one who deliberately pilots himself. The man who is led to hell by addiction is equally as far from enlightenment as the man who is led to heaven by God.


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Tin Foil Enthusiast 12/08/04(Sat)01:48 No. 16581

>Which is inherent in the description of one who deliberately pilots himself.

So are you saying that everyone who uses heroin as an experiment knowing that it can be addictive never gets hopelessly addicted to it or ODs or dies?

>The man who is led to hell by addiction is equally as far from enlightenment as the man who is led to heaven by God.

As soon as God gets involved the human laws/perceptions/conclusions don't matter anymore. Us humans are so limited. Every man = nothing compared to God, this can be discovered but never be proved wrong. God created every man, hence no man can claim never being dependent on God. Your very creation was dependent on God, your existence is dependent on God. So are the laws you discover, the free will you use. Do u think something as small as enlightenment can't be given by the one who created the laws of enlightenment, a being capable of enlightenment, the free will he can use for enlightenment? A man walking into hell due to addiction and a man being lead by God himself are the exact opposite ends of a spectrum. In fact God literally holding your hand and leading you is the highest point of enlightenment. The hell addiction is the definition of being being nowhere near enlightenment.

Choose your own path, see for yourself. I've written my findings, perhaps they can speed up your progress, knowledge collection is a necessity for the path through the brain. Dont discuss anymore, do.
I wont be coming on this board anymore, i've learned what i've been needing to. Farewell.


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