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/phi/ - Philosophy
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Anonymous ## Mod ## 12/02/02(Thu)05:26 No. 5920 ID: 4fb7fa Stickied

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This thread is for discussion of the validity of religion(s) and arguments for and against the existence of god/gods.

Any other new posts about this subject will be deleted, or locked and referred to this one.

New threads about religious concepts that play inside their own ruleset are allowed, and we kindly ask that you refrain from turning those well meaning threads into arguments about religion as a whole.

325 posts omitted. Last 50 shown.
Anonymous 17/11/07(Tue)07:13 No. 13265 ID: 443c1c

Those who walk the spiritual path and choose to connect with what some call God usually learn that there is no such thing as "coincidence," or any random happening. It all happens by design, sometimes by a telepathic, hivemind design, transcending the control of any one individual.

I know there will be some present who know what I am speaking of.

Anonymous 17/11/07(Tue)07:18 No. 13266 ID: d75d96

There is no proof of a divine will behind the existence of anything. Stories from two thousand years ago and more don't count as evidence. That said, I'm no atheist myself, and consider existence itself to be evident of purpose in it, but fuck you and your "proof" of divinity.

Anonymous 17/11/07(Tue)07:32 No. 13268 ID: 443c1c

>If God or Gods cannot be seen or heard or perceived in general, how can you prove he /they exist? and how can you prove he/they do not exist?

>I've noticed that people that say god exist and their justification is always metaphysical (spiritual, if you may).

>I've also noticed that people that say god doesnt exist justify this claim on empirical (scientific, if you may) terms.

>Can you hold that god exists empirically (scientifically)? can you explain that god does not exist metaphisicaly (spiritualy)?

Through science, we are beginning to find that there is a bond between particles that supercedes spacial relations, probably temporal relations as well (as exceeding time and space has been my own firsthand psychic experience, but for now, that is beside the point). This is Quantum Physics.
The observation phenomenon (probably not the official name for it, but they have begun to find that matter acts differently depending on whether it is being observed.) is clear evidence towards the fact that consciousness creates matter, not the other way around.
We are given free will by a mass of electrons (electricity) flowing through our brains at all moments. The nuclei of atoms seem to be matter, whereas the electrons are energy. Consciousness seems to lie somewhere between these.
Likewise, consciousness does not end at the physical limitations of the body. It extends as far as energy can flow. I know this, because I have held long-distance telepathic conversations with several loved ones. I can probably not prove this, but I would like you to know it. It is from my own first-hand experience I draw conclusions.
Consciousness is everywhere, even lying dormant in abiotic things in the form of some kind of energy. This consciousness, from which we all stem, is the thing that religious people call God.
I hope that explains.

That being said, knowing we create our own realities, I choose to acknowledge that the power of God lies within the self, and I invoke this power frequently to perform what some might call "magic," and others might call "energy work." (We all believe in the same shit and argue over what to call it)

Anonymous 17/11/07(Tue)07:35 No. 13269 ID: 443c1c

I never quoted the bible and I don't read it bro. Judging by your response, you didn't follow my original comment, and should not be responding to it. No offense intended. Just letting you know. I'm not even religious.

I also ended one of my messages by saying "there is nothing to prove." So by saying "fuck my proof," you are just proving you don't know how to read. Please pay more attention in the future. Best of wishes, not trying to be a dick.

Anonymous 17/11/07(Tue)14:25 No. 13270 ID: f50954

Yeah, I didn't bother reading any other part of the thread; still haven't. I'm literate, but not masochistic.

I took your "nothing to prove" statement as arrogance, the kind one usually hears from Abrahamic cultists who are so confident in their dogma that they genuinely believe they have concluded it to be true.

Anonymous 17/11/08(Wed)19:35 No. 13272 ID: 2eccf1

I understand how you could do that

Anonymous 17/12/24(Sun)15:07 No. 13396 ID: ce81e2

So I always believed that the Bible was true but I always thought it was metaphorical, not a historical account. I started thinking I was wrong and tried to look at it literally. It's amazing but despite how old it is, everything is still scientifically sound and correct. It really is entirely true not just a metaphorical account meant to spread belief.

If you are having doubts I suggest you commit to looking at it openly and being as good as you can. Do what you can to please God and ask him to return the favor.

I was going through a lot of trouble and asked God to send me an angel and he did. I think it was the Virgin Mary but I only know for a fact it was indeed an angel and did answer my prayers. It was a beaut

Pukanie Pukich 18/01/01(Mon)14:35 No. 13406 ID: f3df15


Anonymous 18/01/21(Sun)23:54 No. 13423 ID: 2fadff

>When you accept the existence of a force greater than humanity you absolve yourself of responsibility
>not believing in determinism
>not realizing pretty much everything is beyond our control
Congratulations, you're just as stupid as the people you're decrying.

Anonymous 18/04/24(Tue)18:14 No. 13506 ID: f28ee1

>not believing our thoughts form the universe
On a long enough timeline, nothing is beyond our control--unless we annihilate ourselves or allow ourselves to be annihilated.

Anonymous 18/08/12(Sun)14:48 No. 13595 ID: 4900f1

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Recently in Argentina has been getting bigger the campaign for having once for all a lay state.
What do you guys think about non-lay state countries?

Anonymous 18/09/13(Thu)01:09 No. 13618 ID: e66aa5

I'm bored. Someone please explain to me aurally how I need to accept this toupeed cheetoh as my president. I'm waiting three, zero, zero, (no wait), four, one, nine, (wait still) zero, two, seven, five seconds. People always act high and might online but as soon as a voice is involved they lose their courage.

Anonymous 18/09/29(Sat)11:01 No. 13644 ID: 3f71f7

You don't have to accept him because he simply is your president, granted that you live in the US.

He simply is...

vadality of religions tomska 18/10/15(Mon)14:10 No. 13664 ID: 231a2f

I believe the we humans are mere unintellegent beings. that dont have the technology or knowledge to accuratly predict the meaning or cause/origin of life. and that we are wasting out time and energy on something that can only hurt our society. I mean think about this, what if we proved there's no meaning of life , then everyone could be a nihilist, and one of two possible outcomes would occur, no one would work to get anything done on earth and just let humanity rot away into nothingness, or mass chaos and panic would strike and earth would no longer be safe for any humans, or even plants and animals. But what do i know anyway Im just a 13 year old boy.

Anonymous 18/11/01(Thu)09:38 No. 13694 ID: 0bccb5

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You should read W (or the law of inevitables)

Anonymous 18/12/06(Thu)07:45 No. 13791 ID: 323de9


Anonymous 19/05/06(Mon)03:12 No. 13974 ID: a19f36

Yeah, your conclusion is pretty stupid, but you're probably right when you say we will never discover the ultimate cause of the universe as we cannot observe or test phenomenon outside of it. That said, there are plenty of nihilists/existentialists who get on just fine and are contributing members of society. Life may be meaningless, but people will still want to be comfortable.

Anonymous 19/05/21(Tue)03:31 No. 13984 ID: 85cec8

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Anonymous 19/09/15(Sun)12:50 No. 14160 ID: ef8cd7

Reminder that all religion is cosmic cope and cuckoldry

Anonymous 19/10/18(Fri)17:55 No. 14234 ID: 8433c4

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Actually this thread is imaginary. All religion is Masochism; a personality structure based on submission and dependence.
Reading list:
The Birth and Death of Meaning: An Interdisciplinary Perspective on the Problem of Man
by Ernest Becker
Uses the disciplines of psychology, anthropology, sociology and psychiatry to explain what makes people act the way they do.

Key Concepts:
Ego psychology
Human evolution
Meaning of life
Sigmund Freud
Social position
~enjoy :^)

Anonymous 19/11/15(Fri)09:42 No. 14271 ID: 85987e

Absolute morality is an excellent justification for bigotry and malfeasance to other humans. A moral system that cannot change can declare the poor and negros to be sub-human, fit for nothing but slavery doing labor for the rich and kings, and no amount of science or progress of civilization can change it.

Religion is nothing more than another system of control. Serve your King for your entire life; give your blood and tears until you die of exhaustion; then you're be rewarded for eternity. Literally nobody in the ruling class is actually religious; in their private circles they laugh at the idiocy of the common publick to eat this nonsense. They only pay lip-service to the Church to keep up appearances.

Humanity does not need absolutism in any form, PARTICULARLY morality.

Anonymous 19/11/28(Thu)05:42 No. 14283 ID: 1d0ec6

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The best explanation I ever found for the insanity of religion was from this video:


The premise is that their "God" is just an idealized version of themselves.
That is why they are so obsessed. Any criticism against their God is in a way an attack against them.

Anonymous 20/06/01(Mon)19:15 No. 14512 ID: 4702a6

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somebody refute the following theory for god's existence. I am not a believer, but this argument is damning.

Anonymous 20/06/01(Mon)19:54 No. 14513 ID: 8bf6d2

It's too wordy for me. I only got to #7. Why am I such a retard?

Anonymous 20/06/02(Tue)02:40 No. 14514 ID: cba3bf

It's just the infinite regress paradox/prime mover argument. Nothing in that chain of logic proves that the "first cause" or "actual actualizer" or whatever you care to call it must necessarily be an entity with will and specific intent.

Anonymous 20/06/03(Wed)05:02 No. 14515 ID: 4702a6

Do you believe in this theory? If so, what do you think the actual actualizer is?

Anonymous 20/06/25(Thu)03:04 No. 14557 ID: ac0fa8

Doesn't look too damning to me. Just a wordy way of saying god must have made things because things exist, which is a nonsense argument.

Anonymous 20/07/01(Wed)20:51 No. 14565 ID: cdf926

We all live in this world.... think bout it...where is our beginning point...we don't know at all...we don't know who we r...we don't know what is full extent of human....and we cannot question about our creator... Maybe we r just a simulation...maybe we r created by humans like us...maybe we r in a game like a virtual diving system...maybe we r just souls created ....

Anonymous 20/08/04(Tue)18:01 No. 14577 ID: 88bb2c

>>14565 philosophy is a hell of a drug

Anonymous 20/10/01(Thu)01:09 No. 14597 ID: 8841ce

there is no argument against god as a concept, but there is against more specific interpretation, like the christian god

Anonymous 20/11/22(Sun)22:55 No. 14643 ID: b583b5

Idea number 2 has is much more viable in an argument and I feel as though idea one should be used as a supplement for idea 2.

Anonymous 20/11/25(Wed)07:33 No. 14646 ID: 7cb4c3

The problem with these theories is they imply there is some knowledge beyond God, which is not the case. I believe in God and He is omnipotent in more than any mind could possibly imagine. He created all matter, the ability to see and feel it, heat, the cycle of planets and species. Trying to go into exactly why God isn't helping you mostly boils down to one thing; impatience. God is not at your beck and call, if you truly need help you will receive it. Earn it. Pray you don't have to die to get your recompense and always remember what you are truly asking for.

As terrible as loneliness can be, asking God to help you sin might not work out in the end. Try and keep in mind the bigger goal, not falling tempted to this evil planet

Anonymous 20/12/12(Sat)19:51 No. 14662 ID: 4bd114

This is basically just another version of American individualist delusion. If you don't succeed in life, it's because you did something wrong, because you're a bad person. Now it's not even "you're not praying to God", it's "you're not praying CORRECTLY", but the message is the same:

If you fail, it's your fault. As if children got to choose whether to be born to a family of billionaires in the USA or a family of paupers in Syria. Clearly, if the second child is getting his legs blown off by a mortar attack, he just needs to "be patient".

What a bunch of shit. How convenient it is that any claims of equality due to some magical cosmic karma is demonstrably false in reality, so you instead claim it will happen in some invisible, unknowable "afterlife". Yes, sir, I know you've opened a billion boxes and all of them contained a punch to the face, but in THIS LAST BOX, you'll get a prize. Just trust me!

Anonymous 20/12/21(Mon)20:00 No. 14669 ID: ed5c99

ok Sartre

Anonymous 20/12/27(Sun)22:36 No. 14671 ID: 1a73dd

He's not wrong.

Anonymous 20/12/28(Mon)00:31 No. 14672 ID: 0a137a

>If you fail, it's your fault. As if children got to choose whether to be born to a family of billionaires in the USA or a family of paupers in Syria. Clearly, if the second child is getting his legs blown off by a mortar attack, he just needs to "be patient".
Well now you're talking about being born into sin, only it's not the sin of our father but rather your father (and mother). That 2nd child never chose to be born, it's his parents fault he was born in a war-zone and now he's living with no legs and in constant agony because of that decision. At least religion gives him that false hope that maybe his suffering isn't for nothing, that maybe he'll find some peace in the end, but no, here you are snatching away that glimmer of hope "you've got a shit life because you were born in a shit-hole country and you're going to suffer until you die and it's all your parents fault, there's no afterlife, you were born to suffer till the end of your days." Do you feel happy snuffing out any pretense of parental love and leaving him with a cold withered heart like that shard of flint you call your own?

Anonymous 20/12/28(Mon)21:15 No. 14673 ID: e07b97

Sin has nothing to do with racial parentage or geographic location. That's racism in disguise: "The reason why shit sucks in those countries (where we totally didn't plunder and start wars in) is because they're Godless Heathens."

>Religion offers a glimmer of hope where there is none
That is basically the same delusional idiocy that leads Americans to stockpile guns. They're paranoid of being robbed so being surrounded by weapons makes them feel safe; but in reality they're more likely to just have one of their own children accidentally kill themself. Religion does far more bad than it does good. Just because some people use it as a forlorn hope doesn't justify it existing.

If you're going to lean on anti-natalism, perhaps embrace it rather than retreating back into Magical Sky Fairy delusion. Yes, it's the parents fault and they should not have reproduced. You know why they probably did? Because "God" told them to!

Anonymous 20/12/29(Tue)15:12 No. 14674 ID: 8e9660

>Sin has nothing to do with racial parentage or geographic location. That's racism in disguise: "The reason why shit sucks in those countries (where we totally didn't plunder and start wars in) is because they're Godless Heathens."
Whoah! I never brought race or geography into this. I was saying how a child born in to a life where it suffers is the parents sin. Syria was your projection.

>Just because some people use it as a forlorn hope doesn't justify it existing.
All hope is an act of faith, are you saying humanity should abandon all hope for the future? Without hope we'd regress as a species.

Anonymous 20/12/30(Wed)03:10 No. 14675 ID: 1b5143

>We'd regress as a species
Ironically, this is literally the only possible future for humanity. Regression to a primitive hunter-gatherer lifestyle, with a total species population of less than 500 million. As things stand, human extinction from climate change and biosphere collapse is virtually guaranteed by the end of the century.

One can only HOPE that things don't just keep going as they are, because then there will be nothing left.

Anonymous 21/04/02(Fri)18:31 No. 14723 ID: a22fd7

If atheists believe God doesn't exist, Then they must believe life has no higher meaning, If life has no higher meaning then a human life is worthless according to an atheists point of view, In such case since an Atheists life has no value. killing an atheist is logical because why save something that's meaningless.

Anonymous 21/04/02(Fri)20:03 No. 14724 ID: 38494d

>If atheists believe God doesn't exist, Then they must believe life has no higher meaning
If there is a "higher" meaning, there must be other meaning that it is higher than.
>If life has no higher meaning then a human life is worthless according to an atheists point of view,
It does not follow. If life has no "higher" meaning, it may still have the "lower" meaning made necessary by the premise.
>In such case since an Atheists life has no value. killing an atheist is logical
It would by your assertion be a meaningless act, and it is not logical to pursue meaningless acts.

Goodness me, just look at the time Americium!Metal3G/gs 21/11/14(Sun)19:02 No. 14842 ID: d2a5e8

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Aww yes, making theists comfortable time.

If a supposed god is omnipotent, that is to say, to have unlimited power that anything they set out to do, they never fail and always succeed.

But then, there's something such a god can't do: fail a task.

If a supposed god is omniscient, that is to say, to have unlimited knowledge. That is to say, to know every true thing that is possible.

But then, consider the statement, "god doesn't believe this statement is true."

Combining the two: "Is an all-knowing all-powerful god capable of predicting all their future actions, and then deciding not to follow through on any of them?"

If a supposed god is said to be a perfect being, that is to say, free of wants and needs, then why would a god create or do anything?

Anonymous 21/11/29(Mon)21:26 No. 14851 ID: eb5b27

The reason why the Abrahamic religions are especially so popular is because they're exclusively anthropocentric.
That's why Christians and Muslims justify ethnonationalism

Anonymous 21/11/30(Tue)04:34 No. 14852 ID: 3d5a4d

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Here's the issue, laser weapons don't really do damage to white people, but actually do horrible unbelievable damage to black people literally because of the color of their skin
Boredom. Same reason he whispers how to make energy weapons into my ears

Anonymous 22/02/01(Tue)15:25 No. 14894 ID: e25e6c

The first part of the video is a complete strawman, it assumes every interaction between an atheist and a theist will go through feelings of rejection i.e. a convienent tool to seque into "THIS is why theists say "reject God"!

The video builds on the same strawman again with the Gloria metaphor, assuming that the theist in this theoretical argument did not feel rejected initially the same metaphor would not be applicable. Bible-canonically it's God's job to judge, not man's.
If an atheist can feel close to God, why would he be an atheist?

The last segment is playing on emotions(cherrypicked facebook screencaps from the last decade) and saying it's not the time for disagreements yadayada and
>desirability is not a requisite for the truth
This is exactly what a Christian could say in response to an atheist. Thing is, they have a different truth than atheists.

I have to say, I've been on the fence with agnosticism for almost 2 weeks now. I never had much experience with atheist material before and seeing insofar this is not convincing.

Anonymous 22/02/01(Tue)18:33 No. 14897 ID: e25e6c

>If a supposed god is said to be a perfect being, that is to say, free of wants and needs, then why would a god create or do anything?

You're thinking of Him in a distant metaphysical way. His goal is the exact opposite of that.

No, god doesn't want to be an unknowable mystic deity, he wants to be a friend to you, hence "Heavenly father" being one of his names. That's who Jesus is really. The physical incarnation of God, and since we can see Jesus we know exactly who God is.

Why does a father want to have children? You tell me. also
>that pic
Your definition of God is wrong

Anonymous 22/06/25(Sat)05:41 No. 14964 ID: 06d1ce


>One can only HOPE that things don't just keep going as they are, because then there will be nothing left.

From 1914 to 1945, over a hundred million people were slaughtered in cold blood. What did we do after? Right back to killing. Nearly five million people died in Korea. More than half of these–about ten percent of Korea's prewar population–were civilians. This rate of civilian casualties was higher than World War II's and the Vietnam War's. So, yeah, I think it stands to reason we're pretty much fucked. Sorry, class of 2100!

Anonymous 22/09/01(Thu)14:40 No. 15120 ID: ffbf5f

Is the modern stereotype of safe plodding predictable conversation a religion? It's been a slow creeping methodically repetitive thing.

Deleuze+Student+ 22/09/15(Thu)16:30 No. 15148 ID: e0f8fb

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There's no way to actually prove that God dose/dose not exist . So i guess wether God is real or not is more of a subjective question then a real question .

Anonymous 22/09/23(Fri)23:19 No. 15150 ID: 410853

We could ask, what would the existence of God imply to us, sensorially?
Then we could try to verify that in our senses.


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